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Welcome to Insert Buzzword, the podcast that breaks through business buzzwords to explore the genuine stories behind peoples journeys. In the heart of Scotland, we venture into the lives of entrepreneurs and business professionals, uncovering the unique challenges and triumphs that define their paths.
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Ailsa Campbell: Weaving a Legacy – From Graphic Designer to the Heart of Crieff's Community Revival
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Embark on an unforgettable journey with Ailsa Campbell, as she recounts her whimsical transition from Vancouver's laid-back charm to becoming the pulsating heart of the Crieff community's renaissance. As Ailsa invites us into her world, we're swept away by tales of her heartening education, gap year escapades, and the serendipitous discovery of her graphic design prowess—a skill that would later anchor her deeply in the fabric of local enterprise and motherhood. Her story isn't just a sequence of events; it's a mosaic of resilience, ingenuity, and the profound impact of community ties.
Imagine balancing the delicate scales of entrepreneurship with the full-time commitment of raising children—Ailsa not only imagines it, she lives it. Guiding us through the highs and lows of rebranding a family bakery while nurturing a newborn, she reveals the strength it takes to craft a community newsletter and engage with the intricacies of local commerce through the Crieff Development Trust. Ailsa's narrative isn't just about the obstacles in her path; it's about the networks cultivated, the voices amplified in public forums, and the vital role we each play in the tapestry of community life.
As we unravel the challenges faced by a bakery amid the pandemic and the shifting sands of the creative industry, Ailsa shares her candid insights on adapting to the new normal. From the emotional rollercoaster of furloughs and staffing changes to the daunting responsibility of cash flow management, we get an insider's look at steering a legacy business through tumultuous times. Ailsa's gaze is firmly on the horizon, with plans for the bakery's evolution and her own professional aspirations, reminding us that the only constant is change and our ability to rise to the occasion.
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Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of Insert Buzzword Podcast. Delighted this week to be joined by Ailsa Campbell. Tristan, ailsa, pleasure to have you both here this evening To kick us off. Ailsa, could you maybe tell us a little bit about who you are and a bit about your background, please?
Speaker 2:Okay, so I'm Ailsa and I live in Creef. I'm married with two children, although they're getting older now my daughter is 20 and my son is about to turn 17. I grew up in Vancouver. Actually, we emigrated in 1970 when I was a baby. My dad was an orthopedic surgeon and my mom was a nurse, although she stayed home to look after us, and we lived in the suburbs outside of Vancouver and I had a great childhood, very free. We lived in like, where these houses just sort of organically had plots and people had lots of property around their houses. So I spent my childhood playing with the neighborhood kids, riding bikes, climbing trees, playing with our matchbook cars in the sandbox, and it was great.
Speaker 2:And I went to school there until I was nine and then my parents sent me to a girls' school in the city and I commuted from when I was nine on the public bus to the city and back. It was an hour and a half each way. There was other kids on the bus too. I mean, it was normal and we didn't have any cell phones or anything back then. It was, you know, 1979. And I'm sure we drove the commuters crazy with our being noisy on a bus, and so I was there from nine until I finished high school, grade 12, when you're turning 18. And I was there from nine until I finished high school, grade 12, when you're turning 18. And I was on the student executive. I was house captain for Algonquin we had Algonquin, nutka, iroquois and Huron for our houses and I was on the swim team. I think it was formative for me. It gave me, I think, especially with being on the executive, kind of leadership role.
Speaker 2:And when I was in grade 12, well, when I came into senior school, when I was 12, the school spirit was really high. We had a really cool grad year, the girls there, and then they left and then the school spirit just kept going down and down. And so when it came to me and my group going into the final year, we had a mentor, a teacher, as a mentor, and she asked us what we wanted to do and we said we wanted to bring back the school spirit and have pride back in our school. And we did that, we worked really hard, we did all these events and, um, we had, we had a, we brought back the school spirit felt good and I kind of I'm very involved in grief now and I kind of linked that back. I feel a little bit like that's we've been trying to do in grief is like a few.
Speaker 2:About 10 years ago this, the town pride was really low and I feel like we've been trying to bring it back Anyway. So I finished high school in 1988 and I took a year off. I had become a lifeguard and swimming instructor while I was in high school, so I did that for half a year and then I went over here and did portable cooking for half a year and then went back and did an English degree and then didn't really know what to do with that. I thought about doing law. My mom said I was naturally argumentative and I was making a great lawyer.
Speaker 2:So I tried, I wrote the LSAT and I totally bombed the LSAT. Oh my God, I can still remember that feeling. I am so bad. But I hadn't really applied myself in studying for it because my thought I had this natural talent, because I was so argumentative anyway. So in the end, um, I ended up doing um, a graphic design degree at amla car and I just loved it. I that was.
Speaker 2:I lived in breeze design, I was living downtown, I practically ran to school every day and at lunch I would go in the library and read design books, design magazines. And I did actually worry when I finished design school I was going to cope in the world of not doing design every day in school. I mean, I knew I would be a designer, but because then you're out in the world with other people who aren't absorbed by design and you know they don't see it the way you do and you realize it's not as important to everybody else, but anyway. So I came over here in 1999 to go to the Glasgow School of Art as an exchange student and when I came over that was January 99, I called my cousin Jamie the day after I arrived. He said hey, I'm in town, what are you doing? And he said well, I'm going out and strolling with my friend, ian and his sister for the sister's birthday. Do you want to come up on the train? So I came up on the train and I got off the Bridge of Allen and it was pitch black and he told me to call him from the phone booth and thankfully other people got off the train with me because I think I would have stumbled onto the tracks I was fresh from.
Speaker 2:I was still jet lagged, probably from Vancouver. Anyway, met me in that night. Never in a million years did I think. I mean, when he told me he was a baker, I didn't believe him because I'd never met a baker before. Um, and I just assumed that they were old, I don't know why, like with white hair anyway, and I didn't appreciate that they worked in the night. I didn't, I had no idea anyway. So, um, we started dating while I was at the glass school of art and I have to say my, I think because I was older, I was like turning 29, that was my second degree, I, and the course in Vancouver was really intense and I was work, I was used to working really hard and the course at the glass school of art.
Speaker 2:I mean, those, these were kids, they were like 15, 16, still living at home. They thought I was a grandmother. I mean, they couldn't, couldn't believe I was in this course and the course load was just so lame, I'm sorry. It was really light and so I had lots of free time and so Ian and I got you know, we had a lot. And then he ended up proposing at Edinburgh Airport Car Park. So I finished, I came over to do a term at Glasgow School of Art, then I worked for the Summer Design Studio in Glasgow and I lived with Ian's family in Creef and I commuted and then I went back to finish my degree and he proposed at the car park at the airport. And our daughter, isla, is seriously not impressed. She can't believe. I said yes, she thinks you should have done something much more more meaningful, whatever.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I went back to vancouver and finished my degree and came over for good in june, on june 1st 2000, and um I commuted to glasgow and edinburgh working in design studios. Um, I worked for raven images and the merchant city for maybe a year and a half, two years, and then we were trying to start a family and well, I got. We got married in 2001 and then we were trying to start a family and the commuting was long. The there was more and more work being done that needed to be done at the gra and I mean I really loved working there. It was so cool we had we would do exhibitions, stamps for Royal Mail, packaging for Matthew Algae, hoarding for property developers. I love the variety and all the different projects and I love the fact that in the studio we were all together, like with Janice and Ross who own Graven.
Speaker 2:So you were, you were amongst everybody and when I had had the work experience before, we had account managers and you were the designer and you never got to speak to the client and the account. So it just seemed really not great because the account manager would tell you what to do, how to design or what you're going to design. But you know you really want to be talking to the do how to design or what you're going to design. But you know you really want to be talking to the client and going well and hearing what they're saying and then is that really the best solution. You know they might think they want this, but actually maybe it's this and you know you could have, so it just blocked the creativity and the conversation between yourself and the client. So I liked it, graven, because we spoke to our clients, we did the print inquiries, we did everything and you know I didn't hear Janice on the phone with clients, so it was a lot of. I mean, you learned a lot and so that was good. But, yeah, we want to start a family.
Speaker 2:So I left in November of 2020, sorry, 2002. And then it was right into the. I started working the bakery and it was helping with window displays, making gingerbread houses, um, just everything. All hands on deck for christmas. And then that after that, um, I set about rebranding the bakery because it it was said decalble suns on the, and then all the bags said Bakers of Distinction, but they were the same bags of distinction that the other bakery on the high street was using.
Speaker 1:So you're not very distinct.
Speaker 2:You're all using the same bags, questionnaire with the staff, asking them questions about how they, how they viewed the bakery, what they thought the strengths were, what they, what they thought it stood for, what the feeling was of working there. Um, and I asked, I did a questionnaire with the customers as well and, um, the branding of the sons that we have um came about. Well, we're trying, I was trying to exude like the fact that it is a very old bakery it started in 1830 and but it's still run by a young generation, that is like ian's seventh generation. It still has like a forward-thinking, young kind of vibe. So I wanted to create energy with the brand. But also, so the sons are like you know, bread is the staff of life, so the sons and then the, the typeface was kind of old, like antique, so that was where that came from and did you face any resistance to to rebranding, or was was everyone on board, or how did that?
Speaker 2:yeah, no, nobody really thought that was necessary. He wanted it. But yeah, I took a couple of attempts to get them to answer my questionnaire. The staff, yeah, but I got there in the end and yeah, it was a bit different. You know, like when I first moved here I was commuting to work and but I definitely felt like I was different.
Speaker 2:And I remember with Graven, I started working there in the summer after like late summer, and I took over. They were doing the Ayrshire and Arran tourist guide and I took over that project and I was reading. You know I was, you know you're, you're writing and you're laying it all out. So you got all this information. I'm like, wow, aaron's beautiful and and uh, it was coming up to September and the trade that the long weekend. And I said to the, to guides in the studio, I said, hey, should we go? Let's, let's organize a staff like a a there. So we did and, um, we, I remember we were on this on the ferry from ardrossan and it was a really stormy night and we all came across on the ferry, we went and stayed in whiting bay and we took over this pub and stuff and then the next day was stunning and um, I was walking to the shop with janice and she said to me do you feel like you're different, like, do they do?
Speaker 2:Like, are you, are you made to feel like you're different, like there's? And I said, yes, I do. I get that feeling like I'm I kind of sticking out, but I didn't feel like that in great at graven in glasgow, you know. So that was nice that she got it, you know, and I because, yeah, and it's weird, because you know, you think you don't really think that there's going to be a difference in culture, because we're so, we speak the same language. But there was definitely, I definitely felt, um, like, like I stuck out is that?
Speaker 3:is that something you felt throughout your life, was at particular moments, or what?
Speaker 2:not in vancouver, but um, yeah, I was pretty self-conscious, I think, when I moved here that I was different. But um, but as you get older, so as you move on and you start meeting people, you meet people that appreciate that and then you kind of glom to those people and you kind of like not want to be with the people that make you feel Embrace your differences. Yeah, and so, yeah, I mean it's weird. Yeah, I mean I have a lot of Scottish friends and obviously you know the CCT and everything.
Speaker 2:And it's just a mind. I think it's a mindset too. It's not necessarily like Scottish versus Canadian, it's um, I would say it's. There are people with different kind of outlooks and yeah, um, so, anyway.
Speaker 2:So then um rebranded the bakery and then Isla was born in uh, and so, yeah, I started helping, like doing farmer's markets. I started to do farmer's markets with Ian while I was still working in Glasgow. I would come home on a Friday night and then it was once a month I would come home and I'd go into the bakery and pack bread until 10 o'clock at night, go to bed, get up at 4, come back, finish packing bread and then go to the market sell the stuff and then come back and have a hot bath. I would live for the hot bath and a glass of wine and a magazine and the bath. And then I got too pregnant and too big so we stopped doing that. And then, yeah, nyla was born and that was lovely and that was lovely. No one tells you that first year with one child, that one, you know, the first year with your, your want, your baby is a unique thing. You'll never get that again because once you have another one you've got the other one in tow and it's just a whole different thing. So that was a lovely year that I felt was lucky to have because I wasn't really working and then I wanted to work in the bakery and I and well, ian's family Ian's mom didn't want to be tied down to look after Isla, like, give me set days. So I just started doing graphics with these other moms, doing a family newsletter called Knock Knock. I was the designer, karen was the marketing, no, karen was the writer, and then we had Ange, who did sales, and the three of us we did this newsletter that just had articles and things and we covered our costs and we were just keeping our skills going treading water while we were raising our young kids and networking and meeting other people in the area. And then we did that for a year. So we did one for each season and then Karen moved away and then by that point I started doing some more graphics for people I was, and I was doing pro bono graphics too, like for the drover's tryst walking festival and um, I'm just trying to think what else. So I did that.
Speaker 2:Then hamish came along and I was getting more and more requests for for work and so I got a little grant from through person can and Kinross to help me upskill my, my InDesign, the page layout program, because when I finished design school, that was right when InDesign came out which was like, which then became the industry standard for page, but I hadn't really learned it. So there was a guy, scott Russell, in Comrie, adobe certified trainer that I would normally have to go to Glasgow, edinburgh, to pay 500 pounds to learn and he would come to my house in between school drop and pickup and train me on my own, like here, on my own iMac. And that was great. And so I started doing more work, more work, like I, I worked with Commie Croft, um, hugh Grierson, remake, stuart Tower and, I think, because I had the experience of working with the bakery, I understood small business and you know what they were looking for and their budget, and and, um, I, yeah, so, so that was, that was good. And then, um, but it was getting hard doing my work and also looking after the kids and they started needing me more and more after school because they were needing homework and it was like swimming lessons and all these different things. And, um, ian just worked in the bakery Like there was no, there was no 50, 50 parenting.
Speaker 2:So I, I, in the end in 23 well, actually, before that, though I got, I started to get a little bit involved with creep. Um, there was a creep survey in um 2010 that these guys did. Uh, they were really keen to get all the railings painted in grief and they needed to prove that that was something the town wanted. But they always all this other stuff came up and I went to the presentation of that survey. Uh, in november 2010 at the hydro. It was a really big meeting and a couple times I stood up and said, uh, why? You know who cares about the railings? The buildings are going to fall down and you know there's already been people killed in Edinburgh and almost killed in Perth. We don't want to have that happen in Creef.
Speaker 2:And I think when you stand up and say something, they come up to you and say would you like to get involved? Yeah, so I little did. I know that would be the beginning of of like now, like a whole new, like education, basically in community led development and regeneration, and anyway. So I started doing that and I kept thinking so we started, so I got this, I got involved a little group and we started meeting every two weeks to keep up the momentum and get going. And it was getting, it was a lot, and I kept thinking, okay, well, after this I'll stop After this, I'll stop. And then we realized. So then we were looking at what we're going to do with what other communities did with these buildings and things.
Speaker 2:We learned about a development trust and we decided that we would float the idea of a development trust for CRIF. So we held a big meeting in June of 2011. And we put 5,000 postcards to everybody's doors saying CRIF needs some love. There's no doubt about it CRIF needs some love. Come to this meeting. So we had a really big turnout and we had paper on the seat saying do you support a development trust? Would you like to get involved beyond a steering group? And we had overwhelming support. We had invited a couple of people from different development trusts, community and blah blah. And then so there was overwhelming support for one, and so that was in June.
Speaker 2:So then the summer comes. Nothing really gets done in the summer. So a steering group started in September muthil. They were doing an action, a community action plan. And we realized I realized that's actually a really good thing to do because it gives everybody a chance to have their voice heard and it's a democratic, transparent way of getting the community's priorities. And then that way, um, uh, which people it stops like the power tripping of people having their own agendas and trying to push their what they want done. And so that's what we did in Creef.
Speaker 2:We decided to do that in Creef and then we launched and I thought that we launched like I don't know in the spring, but it was another year and a bit. I mean it took a lot, takes a long time getting stuff done as a community and um, and so this was going on and we launched that. So we launched the action plan and we launched the action plan in February, just around Valentine's Day, we did a big campaign Show your Love for Creef. We got people to come and get involved and then in March we set up our Creef Community Trust as a development trust. And then I stopped doing graphics. I stopped my own graphics business because I couldn't do everything and the kids needed me and he didn't wanted me to. He wanted to set up a shop in comry and he wanted me to oversee that. So I joined the bakery properly. Then before that they'd been a client of mine and um, and so, yeah, it was busy and um.
Speaker 3:And so, yeah, it was busy, was there? Obviously you covered quite a breadth of experience. There's a lot of different experiences there, so was there an overarching kind of theme or skill or quality that you think helped you in those moments, or or that you learned from those those, uh, experiences?
Speaker 2:um, I think that the graphic design, the design education that I had, where you are problem solving and you're analyzing the problem and then looking for solutions and having that sort of elastic, creative way of trying to figure something out, helped me with trying to figure out how do we tackle the issues in Creeve.
Speaker 2:Tackle the issues in creve and I mean we did the act, we did the action plan, really because we were born out of this little group that wanted to do something about the drum and arms and in order to do something you have to prove to the local authority and funders and everything that it is a top priority for the commute town. So we you have to go and ask the town. But out of that came all these other things that the town wanted done, like paths and marketing. And a better town and make a better place for people is interesting and I could see how they all kind of joined up. So, and then same thing with the bakery. There's so many different aspects to running the bakery and although at the time, you know, back then, I wasn't involved in the business side of things, I was just involved in the promotion, marketing and promotion, the branding.
Speaker 3:What would you say was the most difficult aspect of all these different projects and initiatives?
Speaker 2:Well, with CCT I would say the most difficult thing was really not knowing the landscape. You know we all have our own professional backgrounds and experience but we were amateurs when it came to being a community group, setting up a development trust. I'd never been on a board before. I didn't know what governance was, I had no idea and I was kind of not really interested in the board part of stuff. I was just interested in getting stuff done. Know, like the drama and things and um, but and and all that, everything. All of it was new, like a whole new. Like I said, it was an education. You know who to talk to funders, what their criteria are, but filling in funding applications, um, and you know, at the very beginning you get knocked back so much from like you know we'd apply for funding, we wouldn't get it and I'd be in tears and you're just like they don't understand and you know it's just, it was difficult that stuff.
Speaker 3:But it sounds like you know you have almost thrown yourself into lots of different experiences or dealt with lots of different from, although you're a baby immigrant in Canada, coming to Scotland, raising family, committing to Glasgow, studying jobs, and then the whole phase of community groups and kind of almost being the first one to put yourself forward to start, and then the whole phase of community groups and kind of almost, you know, being the first one to put yourself forward to start. You know, start an initiative or a movement, but is there moments where you know that to me strikes as someone that's very confident and sure of themselves? Did you have moments where you doubted yourself, or were you ever just like, you know, what have I done or why am I doing this?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Many times I mean yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But then you know you're in it and it's like, well, you can't stop because you've started it and I kind of I'm somebody who likes to see things through Like I think that I have a certain level of grit and perseverance. Having said that, I mean the whole thing with CCT. Like there have been times it's very up and down and there's times where you're riding on a high, like just coming out of a meeting with all the other guys, and you feel a sense of camaraderie and you feel like you're moving forward. And it's nice when you're all bouncing ideas off each other and you're you're going in the same way. That's great feeling.
Speaker 2:But then sometimes you know, when you get knocked back by a funder or or something like, um, you just come against these hurdles, it can get to you and you feel like giving up. But then you have somebody come and kind of give you a little bit of a pep talk and, um, yeah, or you have a hot bath you know, and uh, you just, and they pick you up and I feel like, uh, we are, yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:You know, we're all. We all have our moments and we all kind of um cheer each other on yeah.
Speaker 1:Definitely cheer each other on. Yeah, jeremy, do you want to ask a question? Yes, I would. I've been itching to ask him, you're so. Glasgow School of Art they were the big competitors for us down the road. Being a Strathclyde architecture student, um, oh yeah, no, there's a. There's a big rivalry. Um, and my former co-founder and I, we always said that if we could do any degree of GSA, it would be graphic design. So I'm curious as to why you didn't enjoy it particularly Well.
Speaker 2:I would say the reason I didn't was because they had two instructors and one of them just went down to London and went and worked in london and left this group of kids. And then the other guy and they, they weren't nice to the kids, they put them down. Yeah, um, they belittled them, they, and also they in terms of, like what they had at my school in Vancouver we had two huge rooms filled with Macs, with Mac computers, and they were all the same type of computer when they had all the same software on each computer, so you could go in and you could work and when it came to the end of each term, the school would be open until 3 in the morning and you'd be there and there was this really cool um vibe of uh, like everybody just worked your way there, music playing, and it was really this great creative space. And I came in january and so the term before we'd had exchange students from all of these countries and we just embraced them into our class, we went clubbing with them and it was fun, and it was not the same in Glasgow.
Speaker 2:I really was shocked. I wasn't expecting that, and the staff too, like not just the teachers, but the support staff, like if you went to talk to them, they were doer. I mean, I get it. Now there's a thing, there's doerness here they were doer, whereas in Vancouver they're super friendly and heavily carved. They couldn't. They knew how hard we were working and they were so supportive. It was totally different. But yeah, and so I'm sorry to say that, but you know, no, no music's my ears on a strathclyde, or.
Speaker 1:And when I came back and I was looking for work.
Speaker 2:I went like before I came over I had sort of research design studios and I had um, had a list and made some contacts with them. And so I went back and I was looking for work. I went like, before I came over I had sort of researched design studios and I had um, had a list and made some contacts with them, and so I went and made I met with different design studios and then, and then one of them I went to was just an information interview and they said, you know, this girl's working, looking for work. Do you know anybody that's looking? And somebody said, oh, graven is.
Speaker 2:So then I went to Gra and I knew that they were major Glasgow School of Art people, you know. And I was worried that well, actually when I was going around anywhere I was worried that. So I just didn't say much about Glasgow School of Art. I was like, oh yeah, it's great. It's great Because I obviously was looking for work and I didn't want to come across negative. And then I went to Gra working.
Speaker 2:There was a girl that had been in the class that I had been in and I was like, oh god, but they. So I was being interviewed. And she told me after, I mean, we became she, she was great and and we um, lorna, and we became friends and everything's good and um. But she and so when I was being interviewed I think was interviewing me, I think man anyway so she was being interviewed, I think it was interviewing me, I think man anyway. So she was being quizzed by somebody else because she recognized me and they wanted to know what I was like. I mean, I got the job, but then when I was there, I was talking to the head of design in our studio not Janice, but the other one and she did say that she didn't think it was good too. There you go. Yeah, it wasn't just me, and I was glad that I was able to eventually tell them my story and they corroborated it. So, yeah, interesting, it's too bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and to be honest, if I had, I really wanted to go to Glasgow because my dad was from Glasgow. If I had, I didn't want to hear about anywhere else, but if I had, I probably should have gone to Dundee because I went to their grad show later that year and it was very strong, but I wanted to be in Glasgow, that's interesting.
Speaker 1:I mean so my experience of architecture at Strathclyde, I would say the earlier years. It was very similar with regard to the way the tutors behaved with the students. I know that it has since changed and they've taken big steps and I think this is across the whole most architecture degrees in the UK. This was a problem for a long time, but the 24 hour access thing in Strathcclad is one of my best memories in the computer lab, doing the all-nighters and really suffering for your art, terrified of the crit and who's going to give you a beast in the next day. Yeah, graven, I'm familiar with the office. I walked past it many, many times in the Merchant City, in the old place On the office. I walked past it many, many times in the in the merchant city?
Speaker 1:um, yeah, I'm curious, oh so it'd be the new I think it's the new the big glass fronted thing oh yeah, yeah, they moved there after I left um. So what was it like working in that sort of like studio environment, like high profile clients and creative space, like what were your sort of best memories from that?
Speaker 2:well, like I said, you know, we, we were given the responsibility of talking to the client and you know, and coming up with doing all the stuff and emailing them and being so that I like that because we were treated like grown-ups. We weren't treated like I don't know the other place was. We were treated like we weren't like like I don't know the other place was we were treated like we weren't like fully educated I don't know. And so I like that and, like I said, I liked listening to, I liked hearing Janice talk to the clients and I was an edge, it was an education, the whole running of a design studio and it was hard working, though we were heads down, working, worked hard. There was none of this, like you know, maybe with Google, you know, lying on couches or playing ping pong and stuff like that. It was none of that.
Speaker 2:Very hard working, studio and but you know and also just learning about you know, I know Ross saying once that you know whether you're designing a helicopter or you're designing I don't know a space, you're still problem solving and you're going through the same sort of process, something like that. I can't remember, but it was something like that. You still take the same approach and it was fun. We went to Arran twice. We went that first year I was there and then the next year we went and we took over the hostel in Brodick and Clan Coop fell. Well, I year we went and we took over the hostel in broadock and um clown goat fell.
Speaker 2:Well, I didn't make it to the top actually, um, but it was good it was funny.
Speaker 1:It's good. I'll miss it just, and I miss the studio environment.
Speaker 3:It's been years that creative energy being with like creatives yeah, yeah, I, I miss that too, I think uh, one of the yeah downsides to remote working is that it's you know, often we're working, even if you're working with people, you're working by yourself in isolation. It's that physical creative ability to you know. What you mentioned earlier about you know, bouncing off each other in meetings or different things is important and sometimes lost when businesses or organizations just focus on kind of results, which obviously are important, but it's you know you miss the opportunity to to develop something special. So some of our, some of our listeners may, may struggle with the ability to to build relationships or put themselves out there. It sounds from your experiences that you found that quite natural. How did you develop those skills or ability to build relationships and to create opportunities?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know. I think I'm just someone's told me I'm a natural networker. I think I'm just curious. Actually, I think I'm curious about other people and what they do and how they got there. Um, like I said, I like listening to podcasts, like how I built this and founders, and hearing about other people's struggles. And I have this thing where I and I I'm quite social, so you know, it helps. I think I'm I'm quite extroverted, so I that helps. I think being able to talk to people and find out about them being curious, I think that helps to listen. And then you know, you have that in your head and then you meet somebody else and you go oh, you know, that kind of thing, I mean I random, I met.
Speaker 2:I was in North Berwick and I was with a friend who bumped into someone they knew from like a long time ago in their industry and he was talking about how, uh, they've, they've retired at Blair, in Blair Gallery, and he was saying how his wife's gonna start up, it's gonna become chair of the development trust there. And I'm like, oh, I'm a chair of a development trust. And he's like, really, and how's that going? And I said, oh, it's challenging, but it's better than it used to be. And he's like and uh, he's like, oh, I've got to get my, I've got to get my wife.
Speaker 2:So he goes and gets his wife and turns out that she's Canadian, she's a design specialist with retail space and I didn't realize she was Canadian. So she comes out and we're just talking and I said, where are you from? And she, I've gone up to see her and she's come to Creef and what they're doing in Blargarry there's some similar stuff going on, um, with Creef Connections, and the CEO we have for CCT now is I. I thought they should meet. So they came and we met in the co-working space, candon, creef, and you know, linda starts talking about her, her background, her life, and she's like, and you know, and David then starts talking about him and you can see the synergy Right.
Speaker 2:And it just reminded me I don't know if you've watched Ted Lasso, but there's this episode, one of the first episodes, where he's at dinner with Trent Krim and the taxi driver comes up and they're talking and he's like you know, congratulations, you all just met, you just met an interesting person, or something like that, and it was the same. It was that kind of that vibe I think it's just.
Speaker 1:So the networking and meeting new people makes a lot of people nervous. So if that isn't something that makes you nervous, what does give you the fear, if not that?
Speaker 2:What gives me the fear?
Speaker 3:Well, hey, this wasn't on script.
Speaker 2:Gives me the fear. Well, oh, my kid's driving.
Speaker 1:Not, they're driving.
Speaker 2:Not they're driving, it's somebody. Well, my daughter drives. My son is turning 17. And now it's like, well, he's just going to have to learn to drive. Does he really have to? He's like still can't put on the same socks, you know like these chapter socks drive.
Speaker 3:does he really have to?
Speaker 2:he's like still can't put on the same socks. You know, like I, my kids on the on the road and and just somebody you know, having to react to not having that experience to react, that scares me um this is the thing.
Speaker 1:I was chatting to someone this evening who did research on this and it was first time. Newly qualified drivers are aware of the hazards but don't have any experience to understand the fear so they were doing. It was like the sensors on the hands. Like experienced drivers, they would grip tightly and sweat because they get the adrenaline rush. But the new drivers, they would grip tightly but not sweat because they didn't have any experience, yeah, terrified yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think, with you know things like when I was learning to drive, I thought other people can learn to drive, I can learn to drive. Having babies okay there's. You fear the pain. You think, well, women are having babies every second of the day in the whole world, you know. So if other women can have babies, I can have babies. I don't know. I just feel like you know and you know, when we went into covid with the bakery, that was scary but I knew that in and I had super strong work ethics and we could get through it. I mean, mean, it was scary and adrenaline but you know we got through it.
Speaker 3:In that process and then when.
Speaker 2:I started the MBA. That was scary.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I thought what have I done? The first class was analytical support for decision makers, and it was so statistics and stuff. I hadn't done math, the eighties, and I was thinking what have I done? But then I worked really, really hard and I I got 78, which is distinction.
Speaker 1:Nice Well done.
Speaker 3:Yep, I remember that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was yeah hard anyway, and I you know the thing is, when you get through these hard things, it gives you the confidence. You know, I can get through hard things.
Speaker 1:Love that. Another one for me because you're a swimmer, You're a part of the swim.
Speaker 2:I was a swimmer.
Speaker 1:Swimming is something I took up five months ago, I would say so. I'm like five days a week, half an hour, six in the morning, um, but what I did was I'm still doing hard things. So I was breaststroke for the longest time and I was like no, no, today's the day I'm going to do half an hour front crawl. And I did it and then unlocked it in my head and I've won it. That's all I know today. Right, so it's that being knowing that I can do hard things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, then did it at once and then I've just continued to do it, and it was just like that, unlocking it in my head.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it gives you confidence. So you build on your confidence, I guess, as you get older, because you do these things and you get experience and you kind of believe you can do more.
Speaker 3:Understand yourself a bit better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I know.
Speaker 3:That comes with age. Yes, um, so you mentioned covid and how difficult that was with the bakery. Was there? Was there a point in that time period where, not as though you knew what you're doing, but but you were sure that what you were doing was, I guess, working or the right thing to do? I don't know if I can frame it, but it's a big unknown, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, do you know, I think if I hadn't been involved with setting up Creep Me Trust and all the struggles with that and then setting up the struggles with that and then doing the setting up the co-working space and learning this sort of like there's a bit of risk, but it's not the end. It's not risk that's going to like destroy you, like you can risk, and so that experience kind of gave me the confidence to go in. So when we were in, we furloughed all of our staff except for one night baker, and then Ian did all the day baking and I took over doing the invoices because he would do them and I just thought to give him so he could do the baking. So I started doing that and realizing we could really improve how we received the orders from the wholesale customers, because we had closed our shops. We were still producing for wholesale customers and delivering them, and then we were also we set up an online shop. That took three iterations to get that right, but things like deciding.
Speaker 2:Well, we got a really good email from somebody in the baking industry who gave us all sent to all the people in the baking industry or in the Scottish Bakers Association, saying they'd had a big fire and all the things that he learned from coping with this big bakery fire. And so one of the things was, you know, cancel all your direct debits except for the crucial ones and manage your cashflow and things like that. And so the I had to learn how to streamline, you know, cut costs, streamline processes, deal with redundancies that I'd never, I've never done any of that before and and also do all the social media. And there was all this stuff that you just had to do it and you had to. You couldn't like hum and ha and decide, or what you just had to to do it, and so, um, I can't remember what you asked me. The question was that is that answering your question?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, yeah, it did okay um yeah okay, yes the redundancies.
Speaker 1:How, how did that feel?
Speaker 2:um, it was quite emotional actually. Uh, I remember the first one I did I was, I cried, I was, I uh, I felt really bad and, um, I felt guilty. But we, you know we did it by, you know, we had, we had some help with, like, the rules and you know, whatever. So we were doing it properly. But we just we just we knew we weren't going to be able to bring them back. You know we were, we had been overstaffed anyway. So there was a bit of like, okay, well, this is the opportunity to um do that. And then when we reopened, we sort of brought people back trying to balance furlough and working time. So nobody, there wasn't people who were all furloughed but no work, and then there wasn't people who were just working. So we tried to be fair about the the blend of working for all um, so, yeah, it wasn't, it was very stressful. Um, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's tough. Has the business rebounded at this point, like you're back to back to where you were, Hot, no, uh, we came out of COVID stronger.
Speaker 2:Actually, we were a leaner business. Um, we had better processes in place. And um, then and I thought, great, we've come out, we're stronger, we're building up, we're going to do all these things. And then we, the energy bills that we. Our energy contract ended in july of 21, yeah, yeah, no 22. End of 22. And it went crazy. It went to 55p per unit and we got bad advice. We didn't ask around to check with other bakers about the advice and we were locked into a two-year contract with this. So it has been crippling actually.
Speaker 2:Um, and now our, and then, and then also with the with the cost of living, inflation, you know our customers purses being pinched. We've had to raise our prices quite a lot, and you know it's a pain in the neck to raise your prices. It is such a pain. You've got to go and you know, just with the backend things export the product library in Excel and do the increase and then put it back in, and then that's all right. And then you've got to do the price tickets, which are a faff and a half, and you know we do not like putting prices up, and so, uh, we've had to do that quite a few times.
Speaker 2:So it's a bit of a struggle at the moment, actually, and, um, I think a lot of small bakeries are are struggling, but for us, I mean, we're 95 years in creef this year and then next year it's 195 years. I mean, in covid, during COVID 2020, the bakery turned 190. Or the family bakery, like the full, not just being Creef but starting in 1830. So you know, it wasn't an option to fail. And now our daughter she's the eighth generation she wants to take over, so it's like keeping it going.
Speaker 2:There's a bit of a gap because she is only 20 and her brother he's in his second, half way through his second to last year of school and he's they have different skill sets and I think they would be a good team and he wants to help and be involved, but I do want him to go and I want I want them both to go and work other places and make mistakes and other people's money come back. But you know, also, the baking industry is changing and our business model is changing. People use this more as a takeaway than a bakery, and I mean Greg's. When I was doing my MBA, I did my accounting management assignment on Greggs, and you know they learned that. They saw that they could compete with the supermarkets on their prices Well, I guess, on their ingredients and so they couldn't be as cheap with their product as the supermarkets. So they stopped being a bakery and they pivoted to be takeaway and they use their capabilities and resources to produce for their takeaways, and that's kind of what we're doing.
Speaker 1:But we have to figure out what the future is, you know well, that would be my follow-on question where do you see the big opportunities for the bakery?
Speaker 2:well, we lost all of our day bakers. We had three day bakers and they left from October of 21 to January of 22. And so we have barely any wholesale now and we couldn't recruit. We tried to recruit new day bakers but I think the thing is, you know, it's a long apprenticeship to be a baker. You don't get paid super well compared to other jobs and um the so I think we'll be going to more using more machinery and uh, I mean our usp is one of it is that it's a family bakery.
Speaker 2:We've been going, you know, from our family, your family, since 1830 and the other thing is that it's all made bakery. We've been going from our family to your family since 1830. And the other thing is that it's all made by hand in small batches. But that doesn't really. You can't taste that. You can taste the ingredients and you can. You'll have a good product because there is the people like Ian watching making the batches and making sure quality control and stuff right, but you don't really taste the difference whether it's cut out by hand or it's cut out by a sheet. So I think there's that and then I looked in, um, I looked and linked, I did a search for like, what are the trends from bakery in the next 10 years?
Speaker 2:And it was all about convenience and supermarkets, hypermarkets, and you can see things like greg's going into into petrol stations and where the Thai footfall and Costa coming in. We sell a lot of coffee and you know Costa's gone into the co-op and things and that eats into your sales, you know. So I don't know. The other part of Campbell's Bakery is Uncle Jimmy. He's in calendar and he does purely shortbread, wholesale short like walkers, and he's global. We have a joke he drives the rolls, we make the rules um and, uh, we're on good terms with him.
Speaker 2:You know we're just different business models, but um need to talk to uncle jimmy and figure out how campbell's and grief can pivot a bit into not just relying on the shop, on the shops yeah, is there a difference in the comory and grief shops in terms of? Oh yeah of trade yeah, different, different demographic.
Speaker 2:Um, and the, I would say it's much more seasonal, like, like, when the caravans open up the sails there's a big uplift in sails and then when the caravans close, there's a big drop. And we didn't realize that at the beginning, you know, because we opened in May and we weren't really prepared for that. So we put a lot of effort into stocking Comrie and making nice displays and everything, and then it just fell off a cliff. And making nice displays and everything, and then it just fell off a cliff. So we had to really, um, matt, you know, rethink how we stock it and things like that. So, um, and there's a lot of competition in Calmery. Actually, you know, you've got the deli. There was a cafe but it's on the market now. There's the, the, the post office sells tower bakery stuff. The post office sells bakery stuff, there's the spa and I think Sourdough John is opening a shop also on the high street. So for a wee little village it's quite competitive. But we like being in Comrie.
Speaker 1:What about your?
Speaker 3:ambitions. Are you continuing to support the bakery? Do you have any other kind of plans? Or, or, you know, after the nba, do you have any? You know, uh, personal goals to to fulfill after that?
Speaker 2:I do.
Speaker 3:Are they what you can share? Yeah?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, I'm in the bakery and I'll, I'll just be there, you know, forever.
Speaker 2:Basically, um, I do sort of the business side of things and ian is the production manager and um, well, he's writing a blog now we're working on a blog for the website and he's writing down he's like a pensive from his head, all he knows about all the different products he makes and um, I I want to use my experience that I've gained through setting up creep me trust and all the stuff we've been doing, and use the mba to work as a consultant, working with other communities, trying to help them with their, with their organizations, like strengthening their organizations, like we've done with cct. Because when we were, when we got going, I said it was like all about the projects. You know, I wasn't really interested in the governance and things, and then I realized that actually cct itself is a project. It needs to be um, strengthened and made more professional and stuff so that when so that exists for cre grief beyond our trustees, right, and it's now become like an anchor, an anchor organization, and so we don't want that to slip, you know.
Speaker 3:So do you sorry to cut you off there? Do you, do you have a preference like is that something you want to do just in scotland? Do have like would you do it globally, or what's the focus?
Speaker 2:I had been thinking it was just Scotland, but if there's somebody globally, somebody in another country, wants me to, I'd be happy to go there.
Speaker 3:Talk about it after the recording.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, well, that sounds cool, yeah, so there's that I'd like to do. I'd like to get a non-executive director role. I'm seeking that right now, probably um more like mid-cap, um existing business and food and drink, maybe family business kind of thing, where I can use my experience of um governance and going through transformation and strengthening businesses. Um, I'd like to. I I've I've learned that in CCT we started off setting up the organization and we were very much an executive board and I was an executive chair, and now I've become more of a non-exec chair and so we're creating non-exec roles with CCT and we've got our CEO in place. So, yeah, I would like to get a remunerated Ned role. And what else is that one to do? Yeah, and just working with the bakery, so keeping that going, trying to strengthen it, and that's my goal and also, I am looking to pass on the chair of CCT in probably another 18 months.
Speaker 2:Okay, and let somebody else take the reins.
Speaker 1:I'll tell it back to the baker interest in two seconds. What's your favorite product out of the baconry Ilsa?
Speaker 2:Well, at the moment we're doing Six Nation pies for the Six Nations and I would say the Welsh pie, the lamb with mint, is really yummy. That's my favorite. I love our St Clement's loaf cake. I can't have it in the house. I just keep slicing half for breakfast, half for lunch. I love the gingerbread, I love the shortbread, the mini yum-yums filled rolls.
Speaker 1:I'll go this way. That's enough. I've not had dinner yet. I'm so hungry.
Speaker 2:I also like the steak pies. They're great. So, yeah, I highly recommend lots of things.
Speaker 1:Tristan, next time I'm off in Crete, can you take me to this bakery please?
Speaker 3:yeah, will do, because I had an office in in king street for a while, so I would yeah, I would often go down to have lunch, but it was a nightmare walking back up king street well, the more you do it, easier it gets yeah, it's probably more reflection of me, but, um, so what would you say? Is your kind of uh, uh, I guess, proudest achievement or success to date?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm very proud of my kids. I think they are turning out to be great humans. They are hardworking on their path, fun, funny, they're good friends, they support each other and they try hard. And I think so I'm very proud of my kids and I'm very proud of CCT. What we've achieved so far setting up the organization, that we have a good board that works well together and we've set up our you know, co-working space where we've got the title, the drum in. We're working hard on that and we've brought the groups together in this town team and created a vision. We're finishing off a capital alignments plan of all the big projects in grief for the drop, for um, our local authority, and for the government, so that they see that grief is a joined up place.
Speaker 2:I think sometimes grief gets this reputation that we're not working together. And yeah, there have been a couple of groups that haven't been pulling together but they are now, and you know, and it's difficult working lots of different people and different things, but we're all pulling in the same direction for Creef. So it's just frustrating because I think the town, what the town looks like, is not reflective of all the effort. When you're trying to do stuff as a volunteer. It's glacial speed. It's really frustrating.
Speaker 3:I'll ask one final question before I let Jeremy ask the final, final question. If you could go back and have a kind of conversation with your younger self, what advice would you give yourself or what would you say?
Speaker 2:I would say that try not to sweat the small stuff. Just try and ride the waves because, um, they, if things work out, you know, and if they think, and even if you feel it hasn't worked out, um, things have a way, and you know one door, like, for instance, when I did the lsat and I totally bombed that, well, that was good because I wasn't meant to be a lawyer, you know. I mean, I'm much more of a creative kind of person and we've had to deal with legal stuff and I just don't have that brain. So, you know, sometimes I really do believe things work out for a reason, and so I've tried to do that. I've tried to ride the waves, you know, not get too stressed about stuff, and just give time, give some space to things, and usually things work out.
Speaker 1:Amen, account, I'm in brilliant, yeah, I'll ride the wave. I've been saying it myself recently hold the line right the way. Um, so someone that has recently completed an mba, I think I. I hope this is an easy question for you to answer um, but the name of the podcast, so it's like sort of trying to cut through the jargon so what would be a sort of favorite buzzword or a buzzword or term that you don't like from, uh yeah, your industry or profession?
Speaker 2:well, I was thinking about that and I would say, within the community stuff that we're doing, they talk about community empowerment a lot and how you know they want communities to take on assets and things and actually I feel it's actually more of a community burden because they, the communities like for instance with the drummond, you know, we're expected to hold that business where the funders are expecting us to hold that title, and it is a huge, huge piece. It's a huge, huge piece. It's a huge liability, and to expect the community volunteers to have full responsibility for that, that's not empowerment, that's like a noose, and so I don't really buy into this empowerment. I buy it. You know there's basically them offloading it onto the community. I think that might be a bit controversial.
Speaker 1:I'm here for it. I'm here for it. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:That's my experience, and tell me different, show me how it's not Right, you know.
Speaker 1:Parallel stuff. Hey, tristan, and with that you're closing us out, brother.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, thank you very much, very much, elsa. It's been a delight to hear your journey, your story, and hear your thoughts and experiences and, you know, thank you so much for giving up your time, because, I know time is precious, so thank you so much and to our listeners. We hope you enjoyed and we will catch you for another episode next week.
