Bryan MacMillan: Pioneering the Future of Tyre Shopping – From Musical Roots to a Digital Revolution in Automotive Safety

What if the tyre buying process could be as seamless as ordering a pizza? Join us as we sit down with Bryan MacMillan, the brilliant mind behind Tyre Runner, a game-changing tyre comparison service. Bryan takes us through his captivating journey from being a software developer for music companies to leading a software team at Kwik Fit, which sparked the idea for Tyre Runner. Discover how this platform is set to revolutionize an industry notoriously bogged down by confusing jargon and a lack of digitization, making it easier than ever for consumers to find the perfect tires for their vehicles.

Bryan's entrepreneurial journey is as fascinating as it is inspiring. He shares pivotal moments that shaped his career, including a last-minute university switch and navigating the challenges of fundraising in a conservative investment climate. Gain insights into how Tyre Runner connects users with both local and national retailers by simply entering their tire size or vehicle registration. We also touch on Brya's early aspirations in music, the discipline it instilled in him, and how those lessons have translated into his tech ventures.

Safety on the road is paramount, and Brian doesn’t shy away from addressing the serious issues plaguing the tire industry. From the alarming statistics of illegal tires on UK roads to the rise of electric vehicles and their impact on traditional servicing, we cover it all. Learn about the growing trend of mobile tire fitment services and the critical importance of regular tire checks. This episode promises to be a comprehensive look at how technology is transforming the tire industry and improving safety for everyone. Tune in and stay informed!

Mid-epsiode Message Letting Our Listeners Know About our Subscription Option

New Outro asking our Listeners for Reviews, Episode Guests and Questions

Transcript

Revolutionizing the Tire Industry With Technology

Speaker 1 0:21

Hello and welcome back to another episode of Insert Buzzword Podcast . This week I'm delighted to be bringing Brian McMillan to the podcast . Tristan , my co-host , is also here . We're going to see if his internet can cope with an hour-long podcast this time . But by way of a quick introduction , Brian , welcome . Would you like to tell us who you are and what you do , please ?

Speaker 2 0:48

Yeah , no , thanks , very much Thanks for having me . So yeah , I'm Brian . I founded Tire Runner . We're a price comparison , or mostly tire comparison , not just price comparison service for tires . So yeah , we started that about four years ago but yeah , prior to that my background's been mostly in software . Used writing software for other companies , mostly From music companies , was where I started off my career , sort of prerequisite . Spotify called OmniPhone , which was quite an interesting gig back in the day , ended up with a sidetrack quick fit for another year and one in and out of consultancy for financial services and whiskey companies . Whiskey companies was an interesting sidetrack but uh , yeah , must be me amazing .

Speaker 1 1:39

So , as with all of our podcast guests , I'm immediately muscle excited . Tristan is completely under wraps as to who you are and what you do . I need you tires for my car . There you go . I've hit the thread . I think I'm good for another couple of thousand miles . Where do we start ? So how did so quick fit as a side lane ? Was that somewhat the inspiration where you sort of descended to start ? The comparison side , the tires ?

Speaker 2 2:10

yeah , I think um way back in my childhood I was actually in music . So music seemed like my default you know thing to go into , my first graduate job being in music . But you know , mother love was always , always cars and um , yeah , I was a house recruiter . I got in touch at one stage and said it's this job , it's on the music thing now . So you know , try the car thing . Um , so yeah , any different quick fit um in their software team for a number of years . Um ended up leading that team , um through the team to about 13 guys , 13 software engineers , before I left . So yeah , no , it was good , it was interesting seeing the other side of the industry . You know it's a big old industry , not a moral one , an underrated and underappreciated industry , but yeah , it'll always be interesting . Cars , it was always quite interesting , you know , learning about parts and all that kind of stuff . So yeah , some of the inspiration from Tyrone kind of came out of that .

Speaker 2 3:07

Just looking at , you know , the market in the tyre world especially is , you know , completely undigitised and it still is this even in 2024 . I always say the tyre market is like where the insurance market was in 2000 . It's even with , you know the big success stories . Local Scottish success story Black Circles . I'm quite fit . Less than 20% of the market is online today . The vast majority of the market is offline . Actually , the vast majority of the market is the small , independent guys . It's the one-man bands that rule most of the market . So , yeah , it's quite a digital , immature market and customers generally don't appreciate tires either .

Speaker 2 3:53

Um , and actually we were , getting the right tire can sometimes be just as challenging as actually getting a tire that you don't feel like you're getting ripped off by either . So , uh , so yeah , that was kind of the inspiration I came from . Um , I suppose right now we're kind of comparing all the big retailers , so we compare . You know there's , there's national and there's halfords and their um black circles . Uh , in scotland down south we've got a bit . We're starting to expand the network a bit more the , the regional players and the smaller , the smaller ones , and we're trying to expand the network a bit more to the regional players and the smaller ones and we're trying to bring on those smaller garages . But that is challenging and it's mostly due to that digital penetration that's so one of the least digitised industries in the UK .

Speaker 1 4:43

Love it . So as a consumer and someone that also I like kind of works in the automotive trade , my so I'm trying to find new tariffs for my car . I'm like , where do I even start ? Like I don't know how big the rooms are , I don't know how wide I need , I don't know what type like . So how does your website work ?

Speaker 2 5:02

I know and that and that's one of the big talking about digitization in the market . So that's one of the big problems as well . People expect to be able to just put in the reg plate and be told it's exactly that . But there isn't service in the uk that can do that at all . There's there's actually only four data data providers that can provide or are licensed really for the dbla's data for for reg plates , and then in turn they've then tried to match that to what is the actual wheel in the car . But what they actually do is they make a guess at it . So what they say is okay , you've got a Vauxhall Corsair . Great , here's the 16 wheel sizes that could possibly be on a Vauxhall Corsair . We reckon your model might be this one . But if you've upgraded the wheels or you've done secondary upgrades , there's no guarantee . So not a single person in the uk can definitely tell you that this wheel is on this car at any point in time .

Speaker 2 5:58

And of course , the tire industry is full of jargon . You're talking about buzzwords . The tire industry shouldn't be any more . You know home , location , this or speed rating that you know it . Customers get confused .

Speaker 2 6:12

I mean , we meet people on the phone all the time . You know , and it's I've no idea how to read the tire size and you know they're stuck outside the road and you're like you try to talk them through the best you can , but you know people expect to be able to , especially in this day and age . You know we should hit our website and be told exactly what's on your car , but yeah , there's a long way to go before that is actually possible when we're trying to make inroads in that space , but it is difficult , it's really difficult . So , yeah , so right now you can use the red plate , look up on our site . I would recommend you go outside and actually look at your tyre and get the numbers off them , though , as I would with any website . So , yeah , chuck your tyre size in the site and it goes off and searches a whole bunch of retailers , kind of hopefully preventing you from having to phone around or shop around yourself .

Speaker 1 7:05

I know I'm doing the first thing tomorrow when I get to the office because we had like that's . My experience of the industry at the moment is , um , it is all like locally based folks , right ? So , whether it's diamond carton of the alloys I pounder , coating this , refitting tires , tow bars , this and the next thing , there's loads of little independents . It's not like , it doesn't seem like it's . How would you call it consolidated ? Do you know what I mean ?

Speaker 2 7:30

It is like I've seen a stat at one point in the year there's actually more tyre fitters in the UK than there is coffee shops , believe it or not . Incredible stat it's about 24,000 tyre fit with , we reckon , our tire retailers . We reckon we've got in the uk . But the supply chain above that , what most people don't realize as well , is you've got about 10 000 different tires now fit vehicles in the uk so any one garage can hold all that in stock . So what they end up doing is nearly the whole industry operates on same day fulfillment from their wholesalers . Right , and the wholesalers there actually isn't that many of them , believe it or not . You've really got half a dozen that are a decent size and really often those there really is about only four kind of big national ones , so most people are getting their supply from the same place . Um , but retail to the customer is is interesting so how does that affect the retail pricing like ?

Speaker 1 8:36

why is there such a like ? Is there a big variation in pricing , given that the market is controlled by so few players ?

Speaker 2 8:42

yes , I know . So actually sometimes if you're comparing like for like , you tend to find there isn't that much of a difference . But the problem is , is comparing like for like with attire ? Because you know you've got mitchell and pilot sport on your car , mitchell and pilot sports underneath the covers . I've got about 150 different sub-skews . So what you end up finding is you go in and you say I've got a 205 55 , 16 and I want a Mitchell Pilot Sport and one guy gives you a price and you go down the road and you say I've just had the price from him and he goes I can beat that , but what he's not telling you is he's not giving you the exact fit .

Speaker 2 9:21

I always say it's a bit like a suit . Going in for a suit , you know you can go to Savile Row and get the absolute perfect fit to your body shape , or you can go down a big high street retailer and get a suit for 50 quid , and it's a bit like that . And what ends up happening is one guy's pressing you for the perfect fit Italian , you know Italian suit . And then you know the guy down the road is giving you the pre-marked special , even though it is technically a Michelin pilot's boat . So yeah , a big variety of actually just identifying what is the correct stew , and some of that comes down to homologation , speed ratings , weight commercial vehicles . Even more interesting , you know ply rating , weight axle . You're putting it on .

Speaker 1 10:12

Well , a little bit . So our office manager , martin sorry , service manager , martin , I'm the office manager he could talk to you for hours about tires . Yeah , like man , I just need to know what's the model , what's the rating . Like , is it this ? I was like dude . I just need to know what's the model , what's the rating . And they're just like , is it this ? I'm like dude . I don't need the essay or the tutorial , I just need a number .

Speaker 2 10:33

People often ask me as well what's the difference between your homogated BMW star marked pilot sport ? You know Michelin pilot sport and the non-standard SKU and it doesn't look like much . But see , if you see them side by side you would see the difference . There is differences in tread patterns , usually , and different construction . Um , that deals with differences in the vehicle's weight , the vehicle's torque , um , some of this is depending how you know you are . You know the vehicle manufacturer always recommend the tire that they've tested , but how anal are you on it ? Some people really want to be exact , especially in high-performance vehicles where it actually does make a difference .

Speaker 1 11:17

I do feel like I need to let Tristan ask a question at some point , because I could talk to you about tyres for a while . How much of a difference does it make ? Does it make a big difference ? Like so , I recently got a new-ish car . It's like night and day compared to my old one , but now that I know that I , like you , know a couple thousand miles , I'm probably gonna have to replace the fronts , probably do all four at the same time . Like , should I be going for something ? Quite high performance compared to jumping to get the best out of the car ? Does it make that much of a difference ?

Speaker 2 11:48

On high performance vehicles 100% . If you test them back to back , you will see a difference , I think most of the time , because tyres wear so gradually you sometimes don't notice a difference .

Speaker 1 11:59

Well , mine , I'm like , ah shit , I've not had it that long , but I've clearly been leathering it , not breaking any laws or speed limits . But the service manager , Martin , was like , yeah , was it feathering on the outside of the tyres ? Oh right , okay , you're going around corners quite quickly , I'm like , but it just holds the road and it feels totally fine . So , like , at what point did I need to get really good tyres ?

Speaker 2 12:24

yeah , I mean , if I'm being honest , the true inspiration for Tyronner was when I first went out to consultancy after I left QuickFit . We were in the fragile services circuit for a wee while and I'd done the consultant thing . I went and got the Porsche . I missed it Not really . Oh yeah , I mean it's great fun , but when you come to look at tyres and everything else and you realise how expensive it is to actually run , no , I'm like Martin , how much are these going to be ?

Speaker 1 12:52

I'm like , oh damn , and I need four of them at one time .

Speaker 2 12:56

Actually , to be honest , with vehicles like that it's not really a little bit about the price , but it's actually about the fitability , Because but it's actually about the availability , because the actual perfect fit shoes , if you like , for that type of car it's hard to get because not everyone will hold them in stock . You know they're quite rare . So , yeah , when I first started Tire Owner , it was as much about the availability who's got this in stock than it was about maybe saving a quid or two . That one retailer actually does it still kind of is that for me , anyway For some customers . Really , what most people are actually surprised about is we sell more premium tyres through Tyre than we do budgets .

Speaker 2 13:42

So everyone just wants the customers more discerning when they're actually trying to compare or I think , most of the blogs is quite happy to go to quick fit and take whatever they've got on the shelf yeah , I think most of the people that shot online are the enthusiasts and the people that genuinely probably know what they're doing a wee bit more . They're a wee bit more confident . And actually , what's the size and can I fit it whereby you know a lot of joe blogs ? They don't know , so they turn up at the garage completely uneducated and the guy could sell her anything yeah , guilty , nice right .

Speaker 1 14:17

Final question , before I do let trust enough . How long did you keep the porsche for before you ? You passed it on . I had that for three years . Three years , wow , so it was a mistake . You're quite willing to keep for a bit I loved it , I absolutely loved it .

Speaker 2 14:30

I mean , I'm a person , you know , hand in heart , I loved it . But , you know , I was starting to think I'd already started to develop tyrone on the side by that point and , uh , I was starting to think , okay , I mean I want to cut out goings before I start , you know , giving up consultancy and going into the startup life . So yeah , the car was an unfortunate consequence of that one .

Speaker 1 14:57

I picked him to start up life . I opened my startup . Yeah , the boss at Camper King . He took a Macan recently and kept it for all of about two weeks before selling it on . It's like it just drinks diesel . It's too expensive . Although it was a green car for him , he was like , yeah , I regret the purchase . And with that , tristan , I feel it's only fair to let you ask a question too .

Speaker 3 15:28

Thank you . Thank you very much . Pleasure to be involved in the conversation Is there

Entrepreneurial Journey and Vision

Speaker 3 15:36

. In your journey or career was there a particular kind of pivotal moment or turning point you felt where things ramped up ?

Speaker 2 15:47

I'll be honest . I think mostly I've just kind of fell into things . If I'm being brutally honest and kind of followed a semi who I'm interested in , I know that kind of sounds . You know , I nearly actually went to Unity to do music and then went to Edinburgh . Actually I didn't conditionally go to Edinburgh to do music , I nearly went to Edinburgh . Actually I didn't actually go to Edinburgh to do music and at the very last minute that would have been a very expensive mistake . Yeah , that would have been a very expensive mistake . At the very last minute I decided , no , I should go and take my second choice , which was Heriot-Watt , to do computer science . I still really don't know to this day why . I've obviously seen that computers was a better choice than the music and it's kind of just followed on from there .

Speaker 2 16:30

When I got my first job it was like , oh , it's great , it's in software and music , perfect , and that company that company was doing pretty well and it was the reason I left is it was kind of showing signs that things weren't going so well with the business . And , yeah , about six , twelve months after I left the administration um , good news for them is the lowest most of their assets got bought out by apple and it's now basically Apple streaming music . A couple of colleagues ended up there but uh , yeah , I left and went to do a quick fit thing . Um , yeah , I left and went to do a quick fit thing , but yeah , I think most of my stuff I've just stumbled along . If I'm being really honest . I mean , most people kind of sit and say , oh , yeah , I had a clear plan . I don't think anyone's really got a plan . I think you just need to , you know , take opportunities if they come up . You know when you say no and dive over two feet when you say yes . Yeah , I kind of say everything . I mean it's just you think I think , start a company .

Speaker 2 17:36

I always kind of thought I would start a company myself at some point . I think most of that is because I'm probably a bad employee . If I'm being honest . I like dying with my own sword , kind of thing . I remember that one past boss shouting at me across the room because I kept bringing him ideas about things we could do , and I've always been that 100 miles an hour , 100 ideas . So yeah , I'm probably not , you know , probably extractive to a lot of the workforce . Um , so I think , yeah , starting my own stuff and something dynamo and sword um , well , I always knew I would do it . I didn't know what it would be . Um , so , yeah , for me , like going into consultancy , consultancy was , like my , not an easy road , because it's not , but an easier road in and allowed me to kind of self-fund the entire owner as well . So we put strap as long as we possibly could and that was , yeah , I would say that was intentional , but I've never round about it .

Speaker 2 18:44

Yeah , you have any regrets ? Everything else around about it , yeah , you have plenty of regrets ? Um , no , I don't think so . Maybe I mean in the software world . I think you know really the US especially , but Ali still is the maker , you know , of the software world . Should I move there ? When I was younger , I don't know , maybe , maybe with that , you know , I would have fancied to . You know meta or Google or something that would have been nice and intelligent enough for that , I don't know . Probably Again , I probably would be much more sure of that . Yeah , so I don't know . Probably , again , I probably won't show you .

Speaker 3 19:49

Yeah , yeah , so I don't . I don't think so . Early , early life . Was a particular inspiration that led you down these paths , or or were you literally just going with the flow and kind of um fell into ?

Speaker 2 20:00

yeah , if I'm being honest , my I was . I was the first one in my family to go to uni , if I even extended family . You know my dad was a construction site manager , my mom was a registrar . First best marriages , um , so yeah , um , reasonably obviously humble upbringing . My dad was super into football , I just wasn't . Music was my thing . I've never really been into football and yeah . So no , I think I think I probably said earlier you're a dynamo and sword , but I've always had the inspiration and never been reliant on anyone else . There's probably a few reasons for that , but yeah , I think that's probably the main motivation right now to keep going is going back and be told what to do .

Speaker 3 20:56

I've got one more question before I hand it back to Jeremy , your website . Maybe I should have done so before this podcast . If you go into TireRunner you put the , what do you do ? You put the tire size in , you put the reg in Size or reg , yeah .

Speaker 2 21:16

Yeah , size or reg . Pop the tire size or the reg in A fair bit of both , and then it'll put a list of retailers or .

Speaker 2 21:26

Yeah , I'll ask you what area that you're in , and the reason we're doing that is we're trying to filter down just to the retailers that are in your area , that are all in our network Right now in Scotland that's mostly the big ones . If you're down south in Milton Keynes area or London area , you'll get some regional independence as well . Up in Scotland you'll bounce out exactly like Skyscanner . You'll bounce out to the third party's website , so it's Halfords or Nagato . Yeah , down south we help the retailers , especially the ones that have not really got the digital capabilities . We take the transactions for them and in order the tires from the wholesalers for them . Take the transaction customer gets a welcome email updating time slot when they get into the point of sale systems and you know , pop the , pop , the diaries , diary slots and customers . It's a wee bit more seamless , a wee bit more real time down there and that's kind of the model we're trying to head to . But , um , yes , a long , a long road to get there .

Speaker 2 22:31

I don't know if that'll be one , three or five years we actually get there across the country , but um yeah okay and like what's the ambitions for the business ?

Speaker 3 22:43

are you looking to operate in different countries or are you just focused on the UK ?

Speaker 2 22:48

Yeah , I mean right now we're very much just the UK . I think some people ask me what's the difference between you and Bicycle ? And I always say the difference between us and Bicycle is Bicycle is another retailer . They buy tyres directly themselves and they send them to local fitters . The problem with that model is , I believe , that model's coming at the end of its life because the local fitters , believe it or not , don't make a great margin off off that model at all .

Speaker 2 23:18

Our model is upside down of that . We go to the retailers and we say what do you want ? What do you want to sell these tires at we ? We don't increase prices at all and we take a commission off the retailers on the back end . But the customer should be seeing the same price whether it's the retailer's website or our website . We don't mess with the results like our foot delivery services do . We are a pure play , very similar to Skyscanner . So where's the ambition ? Skyscanner would be nice . Is the market as big in tires as it is in travel ? Don't know on that one , but we've always had the kind of mindset of building this to at least several European countries Purely on a tech play , as minimal operations as we possibly can . We'll see where the years ahead go . But yeah , it's definitely been an intention .

Speaker 3 24:15

I did say there was only one question . I've asked about three since . What is your role ? Obviously you've got a tech background , but are you doing a lot of networking or relationship building with the retailers or traffickers ?

Speaker 2 24:31

Yeah , I mean , I find , to be honest , the lines of code I write is probably embarrassingly small these days and if I get an editor once a week , I'm doing well for an hour or two . I think most of it now is everything . I mean , that's the start of for an hour or two . I think most of it now is everything . That's the start of life . I think you can't come with one skill . You need to be a Jackie Oldtrades . You're doing marketing in one minute , you're putting sales in it , diving into finances , so it is really about everything .

Speaker 2 25:04

I think that's what makes it exciting as well , you know , and I think being able to delegate that I actually almost being able to delegate the things that you are good at so that you can concentrate on figuring out the rest um , yeah , it makes it easier to delegate . I think if you delegate the stuff that you are good at , as a kind of counterintuitive what a lot of people say , um , because straight away you'll know if someone's doing it correctly , if you're actually good at it . And yeah , I've got a few guys and they kind of do free , free work for me , uh , variety , different hours a week for me , um , and I trust them . I trust them . I've worked for them for a long time and I know when I delegate there I'll get it done . It'll be done to a good standard and a good quality and don't be like massive security rules in it , which allows me then to go and do other stuff .

Speaker 3 26:02

Jezriani , you're on the clock , I'm shopping for tyres .

Speaker 1 26:06

I'm shopping for tires , Shopping for tires , Shopping for tires on tirerunnercom and yeah , the prices look awesome . So see your customer reviews . Is that based on people reviewing on your website or are they aggregated from elsewhere ?

Speaker 2 26:23

No , right now they're our reviews . We don't aggregate reviews . Well , actually I'll say that we've got a bit of partnership going with one of the big YouTubers actually in this space . If anyone's up for watching some very , very geeky videos and Jonathan won't mind me saying that very , very geeky videos and Jonathan won't mind me saying that very , very geeky videos on YouTube .

Speaker 2 26:49

Tyrereviewscom is where we're checking out Jonathan's quality , the quality of his production and the videos and the amount of effort he puts into reviewing tyres . It is a complete and utter education . But , yeah , we get some data back from jonathan on . These are drivers reviewing their own tires on his website and also his professional . So he's a professional , he's a professional race driver , but he does this full time , um , and he , you know he takes a very scientific , actual view . It's a very scientific-based analysis of the tyre models . So , yeah , some of the information we present to customers is either his professional reviews or driver's reviews . So you get kind of what does the tyre do in the wet , what does it do in the snow or the you know stopping distances handling ? Some type of rating is trying to give the customer a wee bit more data than just the usual marketing bump that you see on every other website .

Speaker 1 27:50

Awesome . Well , with that said , I think we know what I'm getting Not only price , but also reviews , especially if they're from a . Yeah , customers on your website and see the the music . I'm keen to talk to you about the music . What instruments did you play or do you play well ?

Speaker 2 28:10

yeah , I mean I don't really play nowadays but yeah , I used to . Um , funnily enough , I was a classical accordionist . Wow , yeah , so I played . I took up being a classical accordion orchestra in Paisley in my younger years . It's a curveball . Yeah , it's a bit of a curveball . Obviously you can go into traditional Scottish a wee bit , but , yeah , most of the stuff I done was classical quite interesting . Yeah , we done traditional Scottish just a wee bit , but yeah , most of the stuff I'd done was classical Quite interesting . Yeah , we'd done .

Speaker 2 28:43

I won the Under-17 Championships when I was younger . The British Championships won several Scottish titles . I was okay . I would say I was okay . I've probably been a wee bit modest for that . Yeah , but you were a national champion , yeah , yeah , I was okay . But yeah , I would say I think the reason for not going into music was I think careers in music are limited and you most likely want to go teaching and I know I have no patience to do this to a teacher .

Speaker 2 29:14

I've got a lot of respect for teachers and people that can , but I knew that was never me to a teacher . I've got , you know , a lot of respect for teachers and people that can , but , um , I knew that was never me . Um . So , yeah , no , I played the accordion , played a wee bit , a wee bit of piano and keyboard and stuff as well as kind of secondary instruments , and they'd have been my secondary instruments for uni . But um , yeah , it was . Uh , I think people ask me what's the crossover ? I've had people say before the crossover between music and software and the many people that I've met in software that are also musicians is incredible . I don't know , I think there must be some kind of brain function that likes that mathematic patterns or something I don't know . But um , yeah , I've got quite a lot of friends actually that are in both , or I've met them through one or the other yeah interesting and we had no regrets then .

Speaker 2 30:13

But like you , don't play anymore or , to be honest , it's a time thing . I think

Musical Hobbies and Life Choices

Speaker 2 30:21

when I go into something , I like to go into it full force and give absolutely everything . And for me , when I was playing competitively when I was young , you were spending 10 , 15 to 20 hours a week in your spare time or trying to find that to practice . You know , if I was going on stage and playing a 15 minute piece , a 15 minute recital style piece , that would be a year's worth of practice to learn that one piece and you would play that every single night . I used to live next door . We lived in a seven detached that I was younger . My auntie , believe it or not , live next door .

Speaker 2 31:03

I used to drive her absolutely insane , going over the scenes the same three bars over and over , and over and over again . Um , so yeah , no , I think I it's more than that . I've let it kind of drift away more than I know . I haven't got the hour a night or two hours a night that's needed . You can actually do it properly .

Speaker 1 31:24

Right . Do you take comfort from the fact you know you can go back into it if you wanted to ?

Speaker 2 31:29

Yeah , don't get me wrong . I mean I still lift it every now and again . It comes out to usually if my mother half wants me to play New Year or something , or my mum's got on at me for not lifting it for a while , so yeah , it goes out every now and again .

Speaker 2 31:46

I've still got half a dozen songs in the top of my head that I can just rattle out straight away . But yeah , anything that's serious or towards the upper grades you know 6 , 7 , eight in recitals , virtuoso stuff I can do that any longer . That's practice needed . Some of the easier stuff I can sight-read still , yeah .

Speaker 3 32:11

This is a flag by a seer Any of your ? Was any of your parents musical or what was the motivation to get into music ? Just happened , of an interest .

Speaker 2 32:21

My initial memory of it actually was that I wasn't really that into football . I think my dad kind of knew that we used to go up to my dad's mum , my granny , on a Saturday night and she used to listen to Take the Four . I don't know what I said . I think I was maybe seven or eight year old as she was listening to that . I must have said something and I must have showed some type of interest in going . Oh , that's , you know , could lie on that . And the next thing I knew I was down at a local teacher starting to learn . So the first few years I spent with him and then eventually , yeah , got involved with the recording orchestra at Rimpaisley where there was a lot more young people involved . Yeah , ended up through there . Yeah , it was quite good , I think . I think it was good to have a hobby . That wasn't for me football , because football was a big part of my family , but even my brother and extended family they're all mega into football . I was passive , passive , interested mostly .

Speaker 3 33:34

Do you get to go on any trips through the music or any kind of travel ?

Speaker 2 33:39

Yeah , I was quite lucky . Actually we went up and down the UK . I unfortunately missed some of the international trips . But yeah , the orchestra actually they went to Canada , america , germany . I unfortunately missed some of them . But yeah , I mean I'm down in the UK but the unglamorous seaside resorts that most of the competitions used to be played at . So Blackpool , scarborough , yeah , those were interesting places , but yeah , a wee bit , not overly .

Speaker 1 34:12

Yeah , I've , are you musical ?

Speaker 3 34:16

Are you musical ?

Speaker 1 34:18

Yeah , I mean I didn't compete anywhere near the level you did , but I was a junior brass one year for London School . Piano , trumpet and drums were my instruments . So classical background , my family's very musical Dad and his brothers were like conservatoire and geneva and what have you . Um , but I think like you like I don't want to say I gave up , but when I was in primary school got through the grades very quickly and then what to high school priorities kind of changed , spending hours practicing the same pieces , I don't know .

Speaker 1 34:59

Yeah , it became a bit more of a chore but I take comfort from the fact , like you said , to get to the level I was when I was younger . I know I can do it , but it would require practice and the time and the dedication and the motivation to do it . I am , yeah , I guess when , when I did eventually give up piano lessons first Odell Pierce you will regret that You'll definitely get older and wish you hadn't given up , and there's a little bit of that , I guess . But , like I said , I take comfort from the fact that I do that . I know I'm probably still capable of it , but it would just require a bit of practice and dedication and the motivation to do it again .

Speaker 3 35:35

I'm an auntie ?

Speaker 1 35:37

Well , they were , but it was a musical . As I said , it was a musical family that I came from .

Speaker 3 35:45

I mean , there's like what was ? Your

Challenges of Funding Tech Startups

Speaker 3 35:47

favourite piece of music that broke you .

Speaker 1 35:50

I'd tell you , grade 5 Exam is when I was in B6 , something like that . It's like , oh God , I need to play this again , and my dad was my accompanist , so I sure there was a certain amount of like family friction , like dad , dad , I want to stop . Can I stop please now ? We've done it forever . Can we stop now ? I am , you know , I think , like you , though it has informed a lot of what I do . There's a certain amount of discipline and rigor that's required to perform at that kind of level and to learn something that consistently , and I guess , yeah , it was useful . I mean , there's transferable skills and all of that and being musical and on how to hold a tune , and I was in the choir last year and enjoyed that as a sort of musical outlet one thing I can do is sing um .

Speaker 2 36:34

I can vaguely do some skills for the or you have to do in of this . You know that's about all .

Speaker 1 36:44

I remember that used to be so awkward as well . Sat with the examiner in the room singing these skills like ah , this is really awkward .

Speaker 2 36:51

Yeah , give me a fist , Give me a fist .

Speaker 1 36:53

Yeah , peter bringing it back to business . What's your least favourite part of being a startup owner and founder ?

Speaker 2 37:08

probably the big one . Being honest , financing financing a startup yeah , it is really difficult . You see in the press you know people doing funding rounds and grants this and funding rounds that and equity raised here and I think most people kind of underestimate actually under the surface just how much work goes into . You know , I think you get a lot of non-founders or non-tech people going . Why are you celebrating raising money ? You know ? I think if you actually look at how much effort's involved in it , it is worth celebrating .

Speaker 2 37:49

We tried to raise money for Tyroner back in mid-COVID era . We got quite far , actually got very far down the track with term sheets on offer from a London-based VC . I'll tell you about one Long story short . I'm not going to get into too much detail . But we had to walk away from it . They were leading the round . We had to walk away after a lot of months of negotiation . Unfortunately , most of the other founders then sorry , the other investors then walked away as well , because if you've not got your lead investor , the lead investor does most of the work in bringing a funding round together . They do most of the due diligence , legals , paperwork and all that . Completely not our fault and nothing . Nothing I could have done with it completely . You know actually some tragic circumstances involved as well . Um , but , um , the end of the day , sometimes things don't work and you need to walk away um , we eventually , after many months of negotiation , we came back with a slightly different deal , but again , I'm not going to too much the detail , but we , the deal on the plate , deal on the table for us just wasn't worth taking , and I think that wasn't because of financial terms . You know a lot of people think , oh , you know you've been greedy , you know you're trying to ask for too much or you know you've not given away enough equity , but it actually wasn't that . It was actually due to terms and the terms and the deals can actually in the UK is the stuff that makes or breaks .

Speaker 2 39:28

I think what you tend to find is people are very conservative in the UK , scotland especially , very conservative , so people are always looking for the downside . You know , what can I do to prevent the downside ? And sometimes you just can't prevent the downside . If something's going to fail , it's going to fail and you're better finding out fast , and I think that's one of the things I've found out when I've done a bit of travelling . Fortunately , with consultancy .

Speaker 2 39:55

I was doing some work abroad as well and I think attitudes are a lot different . People talk about it in the US , but it's the risk and it's a more fuck . Go ahead , let's just get it done . Do it Attitudes . Maybe in the UK we go , oh yeah , okay , yeah , we could do that . But what about all these negative things ? We need to protect ourselves against all those . So , yeah , so we ended up .

Speaker 2 40:21

We had to walk away because of some of the terms associated , because the risk being that some of the terms that they were trying to put on us would have meant that we could have got another seven , eight years down the line and those terms could have came back to bite . And you know , in the startup startup community scotland , your people probably heard some of the stories about fanduel and others , where some of the you know headlines would say that they were very successful companies , you know unicorn status , but the founders walked away with , I believe , by believing , I believe , next to nothing . Yes , um . So if I'm going to dedicate the next 10 years of my life to something on my side , I don't want to do that . There's absolutely no reason to do it . So , yeah , I think that is the biggest challenge and it still is in Scotland is funding that risk , and especially for big businesses , I think or sorry , growth potential businesses .

Speaker 2 41:22

I think there isn't a language . I think this is one of the half . The problem as well is we don't really have a language and words around about what is the different aspirations to different companies . There's nothing wrong with being a cookie cutter company . Whether that's a coffee shop or a restaurant . It's an established business model company . Whether that's a coffee shop or a restaurant , it's an established business model . You can follow a business book generally . There's still some invention we need .

Speaker 2 41:48

But if you're doing something completely transformational , something completely new , to try and build towards that unicorn status , if you're trying to unicorn hunt , that's never really the goal . But you know , if you're trying to do something transformational and transform an industry , that is extremely difficult to do in the UK , unfortunately . Yeah , I've talked to a few founders on that recently and a lot of them actually went abroad because they've had to Some of the terms put in the UK . Just you can't take it . So , yeah , I think that's still the biggest challenge is funding in the UK , especially tech businesses , because tech businesses tend to not be sustainable for a long period of time Once they are sustainable . You know they operate at 80 , 90 , 100 plus percent margin . Traditional business models operate at usually somewhere between 10 and 70 percent margins but you get cash through the door next month . Tech business you could be building for two , three , four years before you actually get the product to market .

Speaker 2 42:59

I think with Tire we've tried to be as bootstrappable and as sustainable as possible , trying to get some revenue through the door as we build . But fundamentally we've still got quite a big build-out to do , especially as I kind of call the tyre industry , where the Romans were having to build almost the roads in front of us , build integrations . Most integrations don't exist . We're having to build them and build them with the wholesaler , with the retailers , and it's not just a case of okay , let's jump to them one and straight down so yeah , how much of your business is like a customer education piece ?

Speaker 1 43:43

education yeah , there is quite a bit do you need to explain what you do to the wholesalers , the retailers and the customers ?

Speaker 2 43:51

yes , because I think there is a kind of misinterpretation , especially from retailers and wholesalers , that we'd erase to the bottom . You know the tile industry , believe it or not , used to be quite a high-margin industry back in the fall of the 2000s . If you listen to some of the industry , they blame online as being , you know , they drove their margins away . And then the margins in the tile industry is actually a lot smaller than most people would think they are now . I mean they can be as little as a few percent in some cases at retail . In other areas they're up to 20% . So not all doom and gloom , but it's actually counterintuitive . Some of the premium tyres have less margin on them than the budgets . So when you get into a retailer and he's trying to push you a mid-range brand , it's probably because he's got more margin , not because they're better tyres .

Speaker 1 44:48

Right , like for the quick . I mean I've googled tyre size on this car and gone back to your website . I wasn't searching by price , or it was the customer reviews . I wanted the best tyres based on reviews and that's certainly price yeah .

Speaker 2 45:05

Yeah , some people just want that . I think , the assurance that actually this is genuine and not you know the

Raising Awareness About Tire Safety

Speaker 2 45:14

mechanics . This comes back to kind of customer education piece . The DVLA stats show us it's like one in four vehicles on UK roads has got an illegal tyre on it today on the road . I mean it's quite scary , the tyres some of the pictures of some of the fitters send us in . It's absolutely scary , really scary . What is roads ? 2.2 million MOTs fail every single year because of the tyres . We reckon about 63% of all accidents in the wet are tyre related . The stats well astronomical , but the tyre laws in the UK have never been updated in over 30 odd years . We still allow park warns . I don't know if I should have said this or not , but I always call a park warn tyre . You can cut this bit out .

Speaker 2 46:06

If you need to a used condom , why would you buy ? Why would you pick up a used condom at the side of the street and use it ? You wouldn't . Why would you buy a used tyre ? People are quite happy going by a used tyre and putting it . You wouldn't . Why would you buy a used tyre ? People are quite happy going to buy a used tyre and putting it in the car and then driving the kids to school . That tyre has most likely came off a vehicle that's been totaled and it's came off a scrapyard . It just doesn't make sense to me , so you know , those types of things are banned in other countries .

Speaker 2 46:37

They're just not banned in the UK . Our tyre laws are very lax actually , compared to a lot of them , especially in Northern Europe . Who , northern Europe , are forced to swap their tyres summer and winter , every year . Do we need that in the UK ? For the climate Maybe not , but the good thing with that is tyres are professionally inspected every six months , but in the UK it could be three years before your tire inspection is done . So yeah , I mean everyone does it . I mean we should be checking it . It's a bit like your smoke alarm I was going to say , brian , you're terrifying me .

Speaker 1 47:10

I want to go and check my wife's car right now Because it was , because it's certainly like it there was new when we got it . So you're like , have we ever actually changed the tires on that thing ?

Speaker 2 47:20

probably not everyone's guilty of it , I mean even me . I mean I say it's like your smoke alarm . You know , we all know we should go and check that smoke alarm every week and press the button . I'm just looking at it up here in my ceiling right now . I don't have to go , no sure , when I'm not on that either .

Speaker 1 47:35

That fancy system that we had to have for long for my insurance that connects them all together . Did we ever press the button after we got it ?

Speaker 2 47:41

installed . Yeah , exactly . Uh , the tires are the same thing . You know , you jump in the car every day and you just don't think about it . Um , and it's usually your mot .

Speaker 1 47:50

When you come to do your mot , that's usually the first person that checks your , your diet I mean , I don't want to give too much feedback on my driving style , but I do notice when my tyres are going , so do I Damn that felt a little bit slippery there . Maybe we need to check the tyres . I mean , does it form part and I'm totally into the tyre chat for some reason but does it form part of your driver test , the theory part ? Do you have to know how to check the tread on your tyres ? So I'm like when did I ever have to do that ?

Speaker 2 48:21

No , it's absolutely incredible the only four corners of the road we do very little on the theory test with . In fact I think there's next to nothing . You don't do anything practical . Sometimes in the practical test the examiner does actually do the odd things like tell me where the the oils you know the thought that checking tires , because it was the other day when I went .

Speaker 1 48:47

I went in I was like martin , how do I check the tread on my tires ? He's like , well , turn the steering wheel , let's have a look at the tread indicators in the tread of the tire . And I was like , oh shit , I didn't realize that's how you do it . I'm I've been driving for over like 10 , 15 years .

Speaker 2 48:59

I didn't know how to do it yeah , I think one of the things we're finding as well is because the pot , because the roads are in such bad condition with potholes .

Speaker 2 49:06

Right now , what's happening more and more is people are hitting potholes , the same pothole every single day , because most of us drive the same route every day . You know , um , you try to avoid them where you can , but the HGV comes all the way and you have no choice but to hit it . What that does over time is it knocks your suspension out . It starts either eating away at components or it knocks the tracking out , usually the tracking . What ends up happening is the tyres end up wearing inconsistently , and it's usually the inside edges , so the outside of the tyre can look completely normal . So if you're just glancing at it from the , wearing inconsistently and it's usually the inside edges , so the inside , the outside of the tyre can look completely normal . So if you're just glancing at it from the outside and you're glancing at it from you know eye level every time you pass it , it can look fine . The inside can be absolutely down to the cords .

Speaker 1 49:53

I was going to say the woven bit of the tyre , which mine weren't , but Martin did explain what feathering was .

Speaker 2 50:01

Yeah , Ironically , I was on actually the road down to see a wholesaler down south a couple of months ago and I actually witnessed a blowout and the young girl that was driving it got the absolute threat of her life . She wiped out the back of the BMW 1 Series , spun out to the back , hurt the central reservation and then wiped out a Volvo the Volvo with a few kids in it as well . They're all down in the embankment smoke , steam going everywhere . After it ran back me and a couple of others , dragged some of them out and because it was a tyre blowout , the tyres were in ridiculous condition . That was the side of Joe Caradrian . So yeah , I don't want to scare everybody , but no so useful message to hear always .

Speaker 2 51:02

Yeah , I think that I mean , yeah , I think the tire industry does a bit too much of that as well . You know they scare people off and all the marketing is to . You know people go . You know you just , you , just you know trying to .

Speaker 1 51:18

But if you've actually ever seen a tire blow out , yeah , which is also why you should always have two hands on the steering wheel . The instructor told me that , so you don't know if it's ever going to happen driving with one hand . You want two hands on the wheel , even if it is an automatic yeah , I don't .

Speaker 2 51:37

I'm going that one myself as well .

Speaker 1 51:38

Yeah um right , just one more for me , then I'll pass back over to you what like future goals and plans . What are the big things you're looking to get accomplished with the company over the sort of the next three to six months ? So ?

Speaker 2 51:54

yeah , I suppose for me , um , we're actively trying to bring on more wholesalers . Right now , wholesalers unlock retailers for us . Um , we've actually got a list of retailers . We're getting retailers get in touch several times a week now . Um want to come on the networks . I think there's a bit that , you know , retailers are kind of aware now that what we're trying to do , um , it's hopefully good for them , not not bad for them . Um , not that you know it should give them more opportunity in future , not less . So , um , yeah , I think bringing on the wholesalers , but getting getting the wholesalers to you to do some of that technical work and work along with us , yeah , that's the main goal for the next three to six months , and hopefully here in Scotland . Anyway , we've got a good couple of deals across the line recently . So , yeah , we'll hopefully start meeting inroads in the next six months on that one . Yeah , that's try with it . Nice In goes .

Speaker 1 52:55

Kirsten , is your bandwidth up to a question ?

Speaker 3 52:59

No , I don't feel like asking anything .

Future Trends in the Tire Industry

Speaker 3 53:04

Is there any particular qualities or traits that you think have helped you be successful or develop your business today ?

Speaker 2 53:14

I don't know . I have probably a own dysphoria , probably with the word success or entrepreneur . I hate entrepreneur . I don't know what it is , but you know , I think the word's just bashed around us and I'm talking about buzzwords . It is a buzzword , you know . I always think it's one of those words that people should say that you are but you shouldn't self-proclaim . I don't know , I just have an uncomfy , uncomfy realization with it . Um , but yes , it's yes . Um , I think I'm naturally inquisitive .

Speaker 2 53:50

I always have been . I remember even some of my memories my dad doing work around the house and I was like , why are you doing it like that ? You know , why do you hammer a nail like that ? Why do you hold your finger in this way ? I've always been . I always , my brain always went into problems . I think probably one of the reasons I went into tyres and I call it the least sexiest , most boring industry in the world , and I think it is . But we all need tyres . But you actually start looking at problems and really dig deep . I think I've always been that kind of . I always see the why behind the why or search for the why .

Speaker 3 54:30

What are there ? Any major trends or changes you think that will happen in the industry , in the tyre industry , in the next few years ?

Speaker 2 54:40

Yeah , I think I had a couple of people ask me as well . You know , why are you only doing tyres ? Why are you not doing servicing and MOTs and everything else ? For me , actually , I think there's a massive trend . I mean , if you look at the sort of automotive , I have to ask the market in the UK . It's about a 27 billion pound market . You know it's one of the top markets in the UK .

Speaker 2 55:04

But the vast majority of that is servicing . It's labor , it's lubricants , it's oil and as we transition to EVs , like it or not , most of that is going to disappear and what's going to be left ? The main consumable in your car is going to be your tyres , and there's some interesting , there's a cool space to be in . Yeah , tyres is going to be the last consumable . I mean brakes , even brakes , but brakes are going to be less used . Talk about customisation . Actually , customisations are still going to be there , but an electric vehicle hardly needs service . I done 60,000 miles in an electric vehicle there . Never serviced it once . It was telling me when it needed service . I never had to service it .

Speaker 1 55:58

Replaced tyres four times but a couple of times maybe , really . Yeah , surely it took screen wash it did .

Speaker 2 56:15

Yeah , I think I took a couple of couple of bottles of green wash , but yeah , uh . So , yeah , I would say , like , tires is the last consumable transport , um , and it's a and it's , you know , in the uk . It's a billion dollar replacement market alone in the uk . Um , it's a billion-dollar replacement market alone in the UK . It's a big industry , underappreciated and it's one of only a few industries that's going to survive this transition . So I think that's one of our plays to retailers as well is try and help the retailers sell tires , because most of our offering to consumers going forward will be trying to do that education piece . You know , try to educate consumers offline and with software more long term . But , um , yeah , and you know it needs .

Speaker 2 57:07

Unfortunately , tyres will become more expensive because right now , tyres are used in lead gen for most of the garages . The garages on the online websites right now mostly use tyres as a lead gen because they make next to nothing on tyres and then , once you're in the garage , they'll sell you an MOT , they'll sell you a service . That's where they make the margin . That's going to disappear . How long is it going to disappear ? How long will it take to disappear ? I don't know , I think we'll still have diesel vehicles on the road for another 25 , 25 odd years yet . But that downward curve , you know , don't know , don't know how quickly that will happen . But uh , yeah , obviously that's my big , probably obvious prediction , I think .

Speaker 1 57:55

But , um , yeah , well , now that , well , that's it , now that you've said it and explained it how you have my damn .

Speaker 2 58:01

You've been facing entire companies yeah , yeah , hopefully , um , yeah , that's . That's always why we've kind of steered away from doing the whole mechanic service and style stuff . And MOTs again are mostly a world margin service only product . So , yeah , I think another interesting bit of the industry as well is a lot of people are moving to mobile fitment . So you know is getting the tariff out of the industry as well is a lot of people are moving to mobile fitment , so you know it's getting the tariff out to come to you . Why not ?

Speaker 2 58:34

You know , mobile bands have existed now for quite a number of years , but a lot of people just don't use them . You know , they still try to just go down their local . God , usually what it is is they get caught out and have no choice but to go down their local tire shop , um , whereby the guy you know people that are planning a bit more in advance that's one of the features we offer on the website is , you know , comparing mobile tire fitters as well um , get the guy to come and do it while you're , while you're working during the day , you know , and do it at the side of the road . Well , maybe not quite the side of the road , but preferably not buy your car park , at your home , at the office , you know , and generally to be honest right now they charge very little for doing that , you know . For the consumer it's usually worth it .

Speaker 3 59:26

Amazing , brilliant . Well , I think we're at the end of our time , jeremy , so I think we need to wrap up .

Speaker 1 59:31

Um so , before we do that , brian name of the podcast . Insert buzzword podcast . Is there a buzzword that you either love or hate from your industry ?

Speaker 2 59:42

that's probably a bit more wide . I probably said it earlier entrepreneur .

Speaker 1 59:45

Yeah , nice , that's a great one , and I liked what you said about never really like calling myself that like other people can say it , and I still feel awkward when they do . Yeah , yeah , so , but a follow-up question well , how would you describe yourself ?

Speaker 2 1:00:02

I think . Well , for me , an entrepreneur is someone that you know has been in and out and exited lots of companies , not just one or two , you know dozens . That's an entrepreneur for me , um , and I think there's very few true entrepreneurs like that , really , in scotland , in fact in the uk , um , I think , meaning history , um . So yeah , how do I describe myself ? Someone that keeps going on , doesn't know when to give up , doesn't give up I think that's how I would probably describe it . Just keeps going , always sees another play , always got a bit like a chessboard I always see another play amazing Brian .

Speaker 1 1:00:50

Where can we find ? Where can we find you ? How can we visit the website ? What are the details , please ?

Speaker 2 1:00:56

LinkedIn seems to be my social media of choice these days . So yeah , I'm on LinkedIn , brian McMillan , and yeah , tyreundercom .

Speaker 1 1:01:07

Amazing . So thanks everybody for listening . Brian , it's been an absolute pleasure . I didn't think I'd be talking so much about tires , but I certainly thoroughly enjoyed it . Uh , tristan , as always , pleasure to co-host with you and with that , we look forward to seeing everyone on the next episode . Thank you .