Matthew Todd: Navigating the Creative Odyssey – From Scottish Highlands to Global Film Festivals and Musical Mastery

What if your creative journey could take you from the highlands of Scotland to international film festivals and beyond? Join us as we explore the fascinating life and career of Matthew Todd, a multitalented artist whose work spans music, filmmaking, and classical performance. Growing up in a large, musically inclined family, Matthew's childhood was filled with the magic of music and homemade films. Learn how early influences, including classic Disney films and a move to the isolated yet enriching environment of Caithness, helped shape his artistic vision.

Discover the challenges and triumphs of bringing "Jesse and the Elf Boy" to the big screen and securing distribution deals with airlines. Matthew opens up about the complexities of film distribution, the importance of keeping production costs low, and the critical role of a sales agent. Aspiring filmmakers will find valuable advice on navigating the business side of creativity while maintaining the integrity and joy of the artistic process. Matthew also shares insights into his other creative projects, such as "Nelson the Giant" and his music videos, revealing the importance of wearing multiple creative hats.

Balancing a demanding career with personal life is no small feat, especially when supporting a family and working with individuals with additional needs. Matthew's journey through formal music education at Edinburgh College and the conservatoire is both inspiring and instructive. Hear about the significance of empathy, intuition, and resilience in both professional and personal spheres. Finally, gain a deeper understanding of the rewarding nature of music therapy and the delicate balance required to sustain a career while nurturing family bonds and personal well-being. This episode is a rich tapestry of experiences and lessons for anyone passionate about the creative arts.

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Transcript

Creative Music and Film Journey

Speaker 1 0:00

Hello and welcome to another episode of Insert Buzzword . We are down a co-host this week as Jeremy enjoys a holiday in France , but I'm delighted to be joined by Matthew Todd . Matthew , why don't you give us a brief introduction into what you do and who you are ?

Speaker 2 0:18

Well , hello , it's an honour to be here . I'm very excited . I love listening , listening podcasts , so it's even more exciting to be on one . Um , briefly , as a challenge , because , um , it's uh , it's complicated , as they say . Um short answer is I'm a musician , um , but uh , nowadays you need to get to be a jack of all trades and hopefully , a master of some . So I have lots of different things that I do , ranging from filmmaking to , obviously , writing songs , performing as a classical tenor and lots of other things . Working in schools , I work in prisons we can get into all that .

Speaker 1 0:56

I'll go anywhere , perfect . Well , thank you for giving you a taste of your life , I guess . So how did that come about ? Did you always have a passion for music ? Did you always , uh , want to , to get involved in filmmaking ? What were some of your , your early influences or interests as a child ?

Speaker 2 1:19

I think definitely a big thing was I'm from a family of seven , um , so I'm one of seven siblings and we did lots of creative things .

Speaker 2 1:29

All the time we lived in some quite difficult areas it would be fair to say , social deprivation . So we were always very aware that we kind of felt very different being a family of seven , but just as well , culturally , we're know , a bit different from those around us , and um took refuge , I think , in a lot of creative things uh , playing music together , singing together , making films together and trying to remake lord of the rings , you know , as you do these sorts of things , um , and that was when we were we're very young and um , and really it just um , in some ways just continued um . So I think my , my siblings , have always been um people that I've worked closely with , and I do actually work with them officially in some capacities now , and , okay , one , two of my brothers are in business together and I'm part of a film company that involves two of my brothers and two of my cousins , and so , yeah , it's been very much a family affair , I think .

Speaker 1 2:28

Okay , and where did you grow up ?

Speaker 2 2:31

in Scotland , Initially , until I was about 11 , we lived in Bollingry Well , that's the nearest place . It was Loch Craig , it was called , but nobody's going to know where that is Between Bollingry and Loch Gelly . So Loch Craig , it was called , but nobody's going to know where that is between Bollingri and Loch Gelly . So , uh , loch Gelly , famous for the Loch Gelly strap . Bollingri is famous for being Bollingri , really , um , so it gives you kind of an idea . It was an ex-binding community . There were some amazing folk there though . You know really wonderful um older people that that were a big part of our lives growing up and a huge support to my family . Um , very working class though , and um , and then later we moved up to caithness , so I was on the very , in the very north tip of scotland , well , and that was certainly interesting um education , sorry what took you to caithness ?

Speaker 2 3:25

so my dad was a church of scotland minister so we basically had to go wherever he went , um , but that , um , he moved . When we moved initially from fife , that was because , uh , the church had actually closed down so we were doing a joint charge , so it wasn't really anybody's choice . In one sense , uh which I think probably added to the difficulties that the move up north was was quite difficult , um , in many ways you just you're very isolated . There's some great things about cave nest but , um , it is just very far away . For if you have friends and family wherever and further south and central bill wherevergrade , you know it's about 7 hours drive really to get to cave nets from Glasgow or Edinburgh . So it's very isolated .

Speaker 1 4:12

What was it like living in such a large household ?

Speaker 2 4:19

To be honest , it was great . I don't know if it was great for my parents . I think it probably was later . I think initially there's whenever , when you had like five children under 10 , um , that was probably I don't know . I don't know how they survived that , but um , they did and and then as you get older , you kind of take on more responsibility and sort of help out and you know you have a place and , uh , you've got people you can do creative things with , and it was before phones , just you know .

Speaker 2 4:53

And um , we didn't , you know we didn't watch a lot tv or anything , but you know we love films and so , like watching a film together , it was like , you know , a massive , a great retreat , and it was great . It was like was like , you know , a massive , a great retreat , and it was great . It was like having your own , you know , preformed community . We're all very different and we all went into different things and you know we're not carbon copies of each other by any means , but we certainly had that commonality which meant that there was lots of common interest .

Speaker 1 5:19

What was the first film that you remember of watching ?

Speaker 2 5:24

First film I remember watching yeah , gosh , I don't know . I mean we had all the kind of classic Disney movies which , looking back , are really works of art , a lot of them . You know just the classic ones Sleeping Beauty , you know all the kind of the fairy tale ones , and Aladdin , the Lion King you know the ones and the music in them is amazing . They often they'll adopt the musical style of wherever the film is set . So yeah , I just remember watching them on video and that just being probably a terrible sound , but it was an amazing experience .

Speaker 1 6:06

Yeah . Was there a particular film that ignited your passion for it ? Was it one you watched and you're like , oh , I want to make these . Or was it something that developed a bit ?

Speaker 2 6:15

Yeah , Later in life , the Lord of the Rings trilogy I mean we literally tried to , you know , make our own version of Lord of the Rings . It was called Elderol and included dwarves and elves and all sorts of things , but that was so influential that's really actually become part of our working life as well . Our film company is called Fellowship Film , after the Fellowship of the Ring , obviously , and we've made a fantasy feature film . Fantasy has remained part of that . There's always a fascination with fantasy . Two fantasy feature films and a third one hopefully shooting in September actually . So , yeah , 100% watching the Lord of the Rings trilogy .

Speaker 1 7:02

Wow . So the two feature films you've made . What are they ? What's the the background to those ? Where ? Where can you watch them ? How did you end up developing them ?

Speaker 2 7:16

yeah , yeah , so well , the gallic king uh , I think that's available still on amazon prime and that sort of thing .

Speaker 2 7:25

It's probably free by now . I'm not entirely sure . Um , but that was . You could get that in supermarkets .

Speaker 2 7:31

At one point , you , you know , great excitement when we saw our film pop up on the asda shelf . Um , I wouldn't necessarily recommend you watch it unless you really enjoy a bit of low budget fantasy feature film . Um , we didn't really expect it to be commercially viable at all . We were making a passion project at the time and it was a case of we're going to crowdfund it . Um , and , you know , gather a community of people , because we just knew there were so many people that , like us , just get really excited by making a film with swords and horses and medieval villages and tree demons and all this kind of stuff . So we thought , you know , we could just gather , we could channel all that energy and make something really good .

Speaker 2 8:12

Um , and I don't think we were quite prepared for actually just how much enthusiasm there was for that . You know , we ended up getting loads of people who are into reenactment and so on involved . We built our own village with our own hands from scratch . Um , we're given some land to do that . I don't know we could . We were allowed to borrow to build the village on hotel be dismantled afterwards ? Um , you know , so it was . It was an absolute blast , it was a ride , um , but , as I say , we were , we hadn't expected it to be commercially viable . Um , so it , you know , it comes across it's a fun film , but it's very low budget . Um , but yeah , then then it got picked up by a sales agent which we hadn't expected at all . They're like , yeah , we could sell this . We're like , really , and they're like , yeah , we could sell this . And um , and so it , yeah , ended up on this in the supermarkets , on amazon prime and stuff .

Speaker 1 9:00

Well , and how you mentioned it was a passion project . But how do you start , even as a passion project , to start that kind of thing , building a village for a set ? And were these friends of yours ? Was there a kind of community that you already knew because of your shared interests , or did you have to kind of gather interest from scratch ?

Speaker 2 9:27

Well , it's interesting I mean , first phone obviously is family that we had a ? Um , my brother , phil , is a professional filmmaker , unlike me , where I just I'm a filmmaker but um , I wouldn't call myself professional , um , but um , that was a start . We had our , you know , immediate family , brothers , brothers and some cousins that were involved in all that , but the crowdfunding was a big part of it . Actually , that was an interesting journey and this was quite , you know , it was a fairly new thing at this point . So being able to shoot some of the film , basically just beg stealing and borrowing in order to shoot some of the film and then use the footage from that to for our crowdfunder , um , in order to kind of gather as many like-minded people as possible . So actually often ended up people finding out about it through the crowdfunder , because that gathered quite a lot of momentum .

Speaker 2 10:20

Um , and then you had , you know , as I say , like reenactment people and so on , who used to be Vikings or Romans saying , oh , I'd like to be involved in that , I can swing a sword or whatever . And we did , we cast the main roles and stuff as well . So then you've got people who are super keen really to be involved in a fantasy feature film , even if it is really low budget . So we got really good actors . We got way better actress than we were expecting to get him , not in order to kind of pull off the film are these .

Speaker 1 10:49

Was this all voluntary ? Were people paid to do this ? What was the the setup ?

Speaker 2 10:53

um , well , at this point , yes , it was one , it was deferred fees , um , and the yes , those fees are still deferred . I think we , I think we were able to pay back a little bit in the end , um , but the whole thing was on the understanding . Like you know , this is the money . We have , money from the crowdfunder . We have to make it go as far as possible . Yeah , I mean , if we paid everybody , it would have been um , oh , I don't know , I'm guessing , maybe like 50 times as expensive as it actually was in order to make it . You know it's um , but yeah , it was the one thing like well , you know , we're not going to do that .

Speaker 1 11:25

I don't know , I'm guessing , maybe like 50 times as expensive as it actually was in order to make it .

Speaker 2 11:28

But yeah , it was a once in a lifetime . We're not going to do that again . To be clear , we pay people properly and we don't expect anyone to work for free or anything . But yeah , it started off . Just everybody was just pitching in enthusiastically of their own volition .

Speaker 1 11:42

Okay , and how did that differ from the second film you you made ? Was the the second one before this or after ?

Speaker 2 11:54

so , yes , so then , the gallic king is what launched it all , really , um , and then jesse and the elf boy was shot during covid actually . So it was very difficult to do that in terms of we had all these extra regulations , as does follow on top of it being low budget , on top of us trying to do it and on top of us trying to do it properly in terms of paying people and budgeting for that . So that was quite a challenge . We did get , I would say , a really nice film out of it in the end .

Navigating Film Distribution and Success

Speaker 2 12:21

I don't think it has a massive market appeal . It's done well in festivals and things .

Speaker 2 12:34

Um , it's struggling a bit , um , in terms of , uh , sales , uh , but we are . It's done well on airlines . Interestingly , it works well as a sort of family film that can be sold in airlines and like um , emirates and so on , you know , because the content is all fairly safe . So then , uh , the airlines are quite attracted to that sort of thing . Um , I wish more people could see that one , really , so that I don't know if that's available free yet , uh , but that's certainly you can , you know , get that on itunes or something like that . Jesse and the elf boy , it's just , it's actually a really great refilm , I would say um one that we're really proud of , but it hasn't translated into into a lot of sales yet okay , and how does that world work in terms of the commercial side of side of things ?

Speaker 1 13:14

um , how did it end up on airlines , things like that ?

Speaker 2 13:19

so usually you want to try and get yourself a sales agent and then the sales agent will have all the contacts and they will try and make the sales for you . We've tried a few different things . Um , like for jesse and elf boy , we were initially going for more of a hybrid model where we tried to sort of sell it ourselves , um , because in theory , you can go to all these people directly , um , and then there was another , a guy in america called shackhead , who has a sort of online um platform where he that he uses to kind of sell films , and I told the kind of screamers and stuff like that . But , um , yeah , we ended up actually getting a sales agent anyway . Um , and actually once we got the sales agent the sales agent phil gorn , um , wonderful productions . Um got us the um , the deals for the airlines and things and , yeah , he's put in a good shift .

Speaker 1 14:13

To be honest , um managed to get us some deals that we didn't think we'd be able to get , so so that's good what is the what does , what are the different levels of success , so to speak , or or commercialization , um for , for these kind of films , what would you if you were to make another , another one , what ? What is the threshold , financially , of sales that is successful for you ?

Speaker 2 14:39

well , you want to break even . Uh , that's the start , you know , um , and uh , yeah , so we have broken even for for jess the elf boy . So that for us was was a win . But then it's a very slow burn . You know , like you , you make the film and you don't expect to start seeing profit from it when , at this level , at this kind of low budget level , um , for maybe like three to five years really , you know , because it's just a little bit by a little bit , and then there's all the different levels . So at first you obviously you want to go for as big as you can , and then , when you realize that that's not going to work , then you start going for the smaller things , like airlines and things , and and then hopefully you can get a bit of that . And then , when that's all been dried up and you think , oh , that's not , we're not getting any more from that , then you can go for something like vod video on demand and people can just stream it , and then you might be sometimes I think the gala king is actually you can watch it for free on youtube and somebody somewhere not somebody somewhere is getting a few pennies out of that . Um , when people just um , watch on youtube , um , so different kind of levels , um , it's , it's one of these things , the pre-dope distribution principle . I like everything that . You know .

Speaker 2 15:51

A very small amount of the films make all of the money , um , and then there's a huge amount of films out there that I mean that never break even , and that's actually true for big films as well as um , tiny micro budget feature films like us .

Speaker 2 16:04

But what we were very lucky , I think , in um was that we sort of stumbled on a model that was actually becoming quite high demand , which is to try to make a film as efficiently as possible with as low budget as possible , so that your overheads are as low as possible , and it's much more likely that in this market , you're going to be able to make a profit because , um , everybody wants to watch films . Now people are watching more films than ever before , but they want to be able to watch them for free . They don't want to pay for them , because you expect to be able to just go on netflix or go on youtube or whatever , and just watch a film , and you feel a little bit annoyed if you're being expected to pay £7.99 for something that somebody poured their heart and soul into for two years , so it's an interesting market at the moment .

Speaker 1 16:51

And for any listeners that might have an interest in making a film of their own . What advice would you have to anyone starting out on that journey ?

Speaker 2 17:03

Well , I would say enjoy the bit before it starts getting into business for as long as you can . You know , you've got to know why you're doing it , um . And if you just enjoy making films and you enjoy telling stories as I do , and and being creative , then actually as soon as you start having the necessity to make that profitable , it can be quite soul-destroying actually , um . And so there's that big bit in the middle where you feel like you can't tell the story that you want to tell , um , and you can't make it profitable and you're just struggling . And then there's about right at the end where maybe you have got success , um , and you're able to tell the stories you want to tell and they're successful .

Speaker 2 17:44

And then there's the bit at the beginning where it's just like , well , just tell the stories you want to tell anyway , just pick up your phone , shoot something in the back garden . You can get amazing images out of your phone now . Or you can get yourself a second-hand DSLR with a nice prime lens or something . You can get some nice cinematic shots . Just enjoy telling stories for as long as possible , um , before you kind of get into that business world and all that need to to kind of tick the boxes that are going to make it commercially viable , okay cool and uh .

Speaker 1 18:19

Is there other forms of video content that you shoot ? Do you do TV shows or any other kind of media production , or is it purely the ?

Speaker 2 18:32

film . Yeah , I mean as practicing what I preach to some degree . You know I've got various levels . So , as this company Fellowship Film , which I'm one-fifth of , we are shooting what will be a fairly professional hopefully level feature film in September .

Creating Films and Music for Change

Speaker 2 18:50

But I can't just sit on my hands and do it .

Speaker 2 18:53

I love telling stories , I love just creating things . So today I've just been shooting a little short film called the Voyager Wings , which is sort sort of analogy for autism and stuff which is a big part of my life . Um , I've got two music videos I'm shooting tomorrow , um , one for a young man called cormac thompson who's quite famous , was on britain's got talent , young chorister of the year and stuff , um , and then just one of my singing pupils and me we're going to do a duet together and Cormac's going to be a runner for that . He's going to get some experience . So it's such a mix . Yeah , I really mean that . Go out , take your phone , just make a film , tell a story . It's the greatest thing ever .

Speaker 2 19:42

So , whatever I do , I'm always very conscious that I want to never be in a position where I'm not able to do that . So I'll do lots of little projects all the time . I've always got different things kind of in the background , and when I got an opportunity to kind of do one of those , I will , and then there'll be bigger things I'm working on as well . Something in the middle is Nelson the Giant , and then there'll be bigger things I'm working on as well . Something in the middle for you is nelson the giant . I've been working on that for a long time , so it's a kind of co-production with a lady from canada called sandy gemmel , who has a kind of anti-bullying material , um called nelson the giant , and I made a short film for her and that's become quite a big project in and of itself and we shot that all kind of professionally and got people involved and um paid the actors properly and all this kind of stuff .

Speaker 2 20:24

So that's a kind of one in the middle . So you got all your little stuff . You know that you just do almost for fun , really . You got your stuff kind of in the middle where it's collaborating with people , and then you've got your bigger , more professional stuff . But just keep creating . There's always the advice I would give okay , and how do you ?

Speaker 1 20:40

how do you start shaping that story into some form of script or narrative ? What's the process ?

Speaker 2 20:52

I think it depends on the size of the project . For sure , I mean I would say the one I was working on today , for example , it was a case of just seeing the opportunity , finding some locations and some actors and going , oh , that could work . Maybe I can pick up that idea that I've had for a while , maybe we can suddenly make this work Gathering props , all this kind of stuff . Storyboarding is really easy now . For the first time for my storyboarding I just typed the descriptions of what I wanted into AI and got kind of AI renderings of the images and then kind of so I had them as the kind of example image and then wrote beside it the shots that I wanted , the primary shot and then the cutaways that I was going to shoot . It ended up just kind of being eight scenes really really simple storyboard . It then just turn up and shoot it . We've got another , probably another couple of days of shooting , but we'll just sort of work that out as we go , just fitting it in whenever we can . Very informal okay , interesting .

Speaker 1 21:59

I've got a creative passion to create a TV show based on a narrative I have , so that's why I suddenly went down the tangent and asked some questions . We'll ask that off the podcast so it doesn't bore other people . You mentioned autism is a large part of your life , and what form shape does that take , or what's the background ? Massive part of your life and what ? What form shape does that take , or what's the background ?

Speaker 2 22:26

massive part of my life . Yes , um , my youngest daughter sorry , my oldest daughter is autistic . Um , she's seven , she goes to a unit um , so there's just six children in her class , highly trained , trained staff , they , they do a great job . But , um , yeah , life's quite tricky for her . It's . It's not . I mean , autism is so broad . It's so broad , um , for her it's . It affects her life quite a lot . It's quite high needs autism . You would call it . Um .

Speaker 2 22:57

Like today I was trying to go into um , get some stuff for the music videos tomorrow , and she just refused to go into any shops . It's too overwhelming , um , but I had to also get her out the house because it couldn't leave her in the house with her younger sister , because her younger sister to get ready for bed and everything , and so it's like , uh , yeah , it can be quite challenging . Um , it's all about regulation , trying to keep her regulated , kind of keep her active , but then not not overwhelmed . Um , it's , it's tricky , but I work um , a big part of my um work is working with autistic children and sometimes adults as well . Um , with a sort of you call it music therapy it would be the easiest way to describe it , but I'm not a therapist . So technically it's not music therapy , but but it's that sort of thing . So I do that in lots of different contexts , mostly schools , tier three , schools with quite severe needs , okay .

Speaker 1 23:55

Well , how do you learn music about how , like with your daughter ? How did you learn how to support her ? Did you ? Is it just through experience ? Is it as a parent ? I guess it's . You know a different environment . There's not a kind of one size fits all , kind of all the answers , so you can't really learn it from a textbook , presumably . So how do you ? How do you adapt and learn to different scenarios ?

Speaker 2 24:31

yeah , well , I was very fortunate , um , that I'd actually started working um long before I , well before I even had christiana , and certainly before we knew that she had autism . I mean , she was technically only diagnosed a few months ago , because the waiting list is absolutely insane at the moment it's like three years . So , just in case anybody doesn't realize how that's going down , that we knew for a long time , so I was surprised to absolutely nobody . But , yeah , I was doing this kind of music therapy stuff before that and so I'd been surrounded by it for ages and I really do consider myself very fortunate for that , because it didn't . I think it would have been really difficult if I hadn't had that , because it can be scary when you feel that your child has needs and you just can't fulfill them and you also know that nobody else is going to do it for you , um , so I'm really grateful for that .

Musical Journey and Growth

Speaker 2 25:25

Um , there are things you can learn . I think that's important to point out as well that you know there are like low demand strategies , for example , are very important . Christiana and um , those are things . They're just useful to know . You know that if you , if you have somebody who's very demand avoidant , as she is that those demands cause anxiety and it can be like if you're trying to tell them to do something repeatedly . It's like shouting at somebody who's drowning , like can you stop flailing around , please , can you listen to me ? You're not listening to my instructions , like they're drowning . Of course they're not listening , you know it's that sort of thing .

Speaker 2 25:55

So there's a lot that you can sort of learn off just out of books , as it were , um , websites and um . But yeah , it's , the vast majority of it is through experience , and when I say experience I mean trial and error . You know , people will often say to me like , oh , you're so patient . I am not patient . I , I just know the consequences that if I flare up it's going to make everything worse . Why would I want to make everything worse ? So , um , you just learn what sometimes works and you learn what never works , and then over time you just give up on doing the things that never work and you try to do more of the things that sometimes work . That's basically it .

Speaker 1 26:38

Can you share a bit about your music journey ? What was your earliest experience with music and how has it developed over time ?

Speaker 2 26:49

Yeah well , playing with family again , a large musical family .

Speaker 1 26:56

Is everyone in your family music , or is there one or two siblings or family members that don't have an interest in music ?

Speaker 2 27:05

Varying degrees . Music , varying degrees , varying degrees . Um , my oldest sister , amy um , is literally a musical genius . You know I don't say that lightly , but you know she was composing music and stuff when she was seven and just because of where we were and just when we were , that was never really picked up . And , um , and she had some quite . She's had quite a difficult life really , um , as creative people often do , she's doing great now , um , but you know , so she was the oldest .

Speaker 2 27:37

We were surrounded by a really high level of music making and creativity all the time . She had had us recording albums and all sorts of things , and a lot of that was down to Amy . I think that needs acknowledged . I don't think there was any of us that didn't do a bit of music . It's just what we did . But we certainly adopted it to varying degrees . I adopted it to the highest degree , if you like . That's how I mean it .

Speaker 2 28:08

Yes , it's certainly been a bigger part of my career than it has for anybody else in my family . I studied at the conservatoire . My degree is in classical singing , actually , but nowadays you need to be a jack of all trades , as I said , and so I did the classical circuit for about eight years . You know oratorios , singing , concerts and things , and my mainstay was directing choirs . I had about six choirs at one point , but obviously when family and stuff comes along , you realize that that is an incredibly antisocial way to live your life , because it's all evenings and weekends and , uh , I am , I have a great affection for , for choirs , but , um , you can't have that your whole life , um , so , yeah , I kind of diversified quite a lot after that , um , and that's when I was fortunately able to start doing more of the music therapy stuff , which is more during the day . So that worked out really well .

Speaker 1 29:06

It's a shame Jeremy's not on this podcast , because he's in a choir currently and would have been able to relate to some of your musical experience , but not to the scale of leading six choirs . But he certainly evolved in his local choir , I know it was your last classical accordion .

Speaker 2 29:27

You asked on , didn't you ?

Speaker 1 29:29

Yeah , brian yeah , you never like , when you think of like or how I know him in kind of a business context or the tie-runner side of things , you never would , you know , obviously guess that that would be part of his , his background or his , his upbringing . So it's , it's always interesting to find , find out these , these um aspects about people , why we do that , that's a guess . But but , yeah , okay , cool um , was there any kind of challenges or struggles you faced in that musical journey ? What was it like studying music ? Did it take any of the enjoyment away or did it fuel your passion ?

Speaker 2 30:20

I need to be careful what I say here . Well , the short answer is that studying music is brutal , absolutely brutal , with some caveats . Before I went to the conservatory , I should have said I spent two very happy years at Edinburgh College , which was called Stevenson College in those days , and I did an advanced music course there and it was absolutely great and really it was my first experience really of studying music formally . There wasn't a lot of opportunities up in caithness , um , to put it mildly um , so that was that opened my eyes . I'd just fallen into it .

Speaker 2 30:55

Really , I wasn't like . It wasn't like oh , I want to be a musician and I'm , I need to do this and I need to do this and I have a plan . I was like I , I didn't even think I was going to go to university . As I remember , my mom just sat me down one day , you know , when I was like 16 or something , like you know that she was , I don't can't remember exactly . I should put a bit with something along the lines of like there comes a point where you need to know what you want to give back in life or something you know like what is your ?

Speaker 2 31:23

what impact are you going to make ? I'm putting , I'm paraphrasing , but that's how I heard it and I was like , oh yeah , this isn't just about jumping through hoops , this is about what do I want my life to to be ? What impact do I want that to have ? Um , and then I was like , well , I'm decent at music , I could do a music course , um , but it was just like there really wasn't a lot of thought in it , um , and then , but when I was in that environment , um , surrounded by other people , they were really passionate about music as well and , like , the tutors were just fantastic and I said , this is flipping , brilliant . So I did really well in that course and , uh , I go into the conservatoire and that was a very different experience , very different experience .

Speaker 2 32:08

Um , I I don't really , I don't feel any qualms about saying this because I think it . Um , I'm on a bit of a campaign that that people realize this . You know , I so many of my colleagues actually now , um , that I work with , you know , with the music therapy stuff of um , our conservatory graduates , um , and have had a similar experience where they just find it absolutely brutal , um , and it's such a common story that I hear of people that went through that and like they have learned to play their instrument probably to the highest level in the country , probably at the time when they graduated . They're one of the best players of their age in the country and consequently globally . And then they don't think anything of saying never do that again . The horn is going to go back in the case . Never touching it again , never doing music .

Speaker 2 33:04

I need to do whatever the opposite of music is . I'm there , I'm going to go back in the case never touching again , never knowing music . I need to do whatever the opposite of music is . I'm there , I'm going to do that . And you can't get . It can't get any more wrong than that . Like , whatever is happening , it can't be any more um wrong than that . So I don't feel any qualms really by just saying it's . It's a really difficult environment to be in um and I'd really encourage people who who are going into to sort of be aware of that and nothing should steal your joy of music , that nothing is worth that cost . Um , I think for a lot of people it does and that for me is tragic . I don't okay , how ?

Speaker 1 33:41

so after the conservatoire , what ? What did you do ? Were you ? Were you um ? Did you lose your interest in music ? Or you were just ? Did it lack enthusiasm ? What was the ? What was the journey post conservatoire ?

Speaker 2 34:01

I think everybody has to go through a journey of reinventing themselves somewhat when they move from music student into musician . I was quite fortunate I'd say very fortunate that I'd had that positive experience before in Stevenson . So I just knew inherently something wasn't quite right . My journey was actually that I did a year of the conservatoire and then had a mental breakdown and then had to take a year out and then I didn't think I was going to go back . And I had quite a weird experience where I just really felt very strongly that I needed to go back . Weird experience where I just really felt very strongly that I needed to go back . Um , probably relating to , you know , those sort of sentiments that my mom had expressed when I was 16 and um , I knew that in order to be the best musician that I could be , in order to have the most impact that I could have , I needed to go back into that environment once again , um , and somehow come out the other end . And I thought at that

Balancing Work and Life Demands

Speaker 2 35:07

point I was going back .

Speaker 2 35:07

For three years , um , there were some complications with the , the sas funding and stuff , and then , and , and then sas said oh , we're not funding you and you need to . Um , in fact you need to pay back everything that you funded , that we gave you last year , because we shouldn't have given you that either , and so that that was a pretty . So things were pretty rock bottom at that point . Um , long story short , what we were able to do and and thanks to my , my singing teacher as well , who really fought my corner um , I was able to get advanced entry into second year , so I didn't have to , uh , retake that first year and um , and then that meant that somehow , that meant that the funding thing worked out , okay , I think . And then I was able to . So I did another three years conservatoire and then I graduated conservatoire and that was me done , okay well going through those experiences .

Speaker 1 36:06

What was your biggest learning or takeaways from those challenging times ?

Speaker 2 36:16

I mean , you learn a lot . You grow up . Really , I think I definitely learned that you need to . As I said before , you can't let anybody steal your joy . You have to know what's really important .

Speaker 2 36:37

And if something that somebody is telling you is important or the culture around you is telling you is important , is destroying your love of music , or is turning it into a mathematical exercise or , um , is forcing you to into a box or to jump through a hoop that you just don't feel is is worth it , then it's not that you don't do it necessarily because you , at the end of the day , you're a student , you need to get your degree , you need to do your job , but you know , you have to keep in the back of your mind uh , nothing is more important than that original spark that made me want to do this in the first place , that that spark of creativity , that joy that music gives to you or to those who are listening .

Speaker 2 37:14

Um , it's got to be about that , you know , and there's there's all sorts of people in in lots of different areas . It's not just conservatories and you like X Factor , where I've got a lot to answer for as well , but they'll try and turn it into something else , and I'm not saying that music isn't all of those things . Music can be a competition , music can be very much commercial , music can be about getting qualifications , working through exams , but we all know deep down it's about much more than that . You know , the thing that attracts people to art in the first place is that sense of the transcendent , and that is your job as a musician . If you want to be a musician or a creative or a filmmaker or anything like that , you are trying to provide that for other people . That's what they're really seeking and you have to just trust your instinct , trust your gut that if something is trying to take that away , it needs to be resisted and what would you ?

Speaker 1 38:14

what would you say you're ? We've kind of spoken about the challenges quite a lot , but what would you say ? Your greatest achievement or success has been to date still alive .

Speaker 2 38:26

That's , that's one . Um , yeah , it's . I mean , it's a joy really . Sometimes I just wake up um well , not when I wake up , because I'm really not a morning person , but you know , sometimes , when I'm doing some of the things I do , I I just can't believe .

Speaker 2 38:43

I just think I must be the luckiest person in the world , um , to be able to do what I love and for that to be what I do for a living , um , and I can't really imagine myself doing anything else , uh , so , just yeah , having having got through that , it's really tricky that first , when you first graduate and you're trying to get your first job , and you're trying to get your first job and you're trying to get your first gig , and you're trying to get you know a website or some sort of social media presence , you're trying to get people to notice you , but without sounding needy , oh , stuff is really really difficult . Nothing but sympathy for people that are going through that . I don't think there's any . I don't have any like hacks . I'm afraid it's just tricky , um , but yeah , once you get through that , oh , it's so brilliant , you know um , once you kind of feel that , oh , yeah , I'm , I'm actually doing it , I'm doing the music career thing that everybody said was impossible you shouldn't do and I should do something safer .

Speaker 1 39:37

Um , so that , yeah , just having got there , I think is biggest success okay , what does your , your life look day to day , with all the different things that you might do , and obviously , conscious , it'll change , um , depending on on what you're working on . But on a typical , typical week or typical day , what does it ? Does it look like ? Are you having to work in the evenings , are you working weekends , or is it fairly , fairly stable ?

Speaker 2 40:06

yeah , well , at the moment , thankfully it's um . I've got quite a good routine going back when I was doing choirs , as you say . Yeah , it was all evenings , all weekends . I've got a lot less of that now , which is good , um , so typically on monday and tuesday , that's my here my music day . So that's the the kind of music therapy type stuff keep calling it music therapy , but caveat small therapy , but , um , working with people with severe needs , um , I'm in a school all day on monday in paisley , um , and have been on tuesday morning as well , and then I'm in the , the south side , cathcart , working with younger adults mostly , as well as some children in Cathcart .

Speaker 2 40:48

There . Then , wednesday , I've got some individuals as well . So Wednesday is one of my individuals a great guy in his 30s , again with additional needs , I do music with out in Kilsyth . Wednesday is my catch up day , though , because Monday and Tuesday are absolutely brutal . Oh , it's also got my youth choir on monday evening , so that's one evening , but finishes at seven , so it's fine , um , and uh , yeah , so I'm absolutely done in by the end of tuesday .

Speaker 2 41:15

It's a really intense couple of days , monday and tuesday . Wednesday is a lot easier . Thursday is my private teaching day . I've got a bunch of wee peoples in the West End mostly at the moment , as well as lots of people that I kind of teach on a kind of more ad hoc basis . Friday is swimming lessons with Christiana , as well as lots of admin and stuff , and weekends just depends .

Speaker 2 41:43

Sometimes maybe a film project project , sometimes it'll be just doing stuff with family , sometimes it will be other things . I have other projects that will be slotting in there as well . So very intense times I will have all that I just described . But then on Wednesdays and Thursdays , and maybeidays as well , I might be doing , uh , like a prison project or something . I've done that sometimes , going in doing music with the guys and putting on a kind of drama production or something . Um . So there's there's lots of other potential projects that will come and go , and so you get really , really busy times and then you get much quieter times , like the summer , for example , can be very quiet indeed okay , and some of some of our and certainly my some of our podcast guests have discussed or spoken about the challenge of work-life balance .

Speaker 1 42:36

What's your experience of that , um , with family commitments and all the other other things that you you have on ?

Speaker 2 42:45

yeah , I mean , I mean it's probably the biggest challenge . Um , the weird thing is , I don't , it's very hard to know what that line between work and life is really . Um , and that's , I think , another thing one needs to be careful with . When you're doing what you love for a living , you know you don't really , you don't have any hobbies , you don't do anything that you do to relax or anything , because the thing that you do for work is what you do to relax . So , uh , yeah , I don't think I'm doing a very good job of it , if I'm being honest . We're working on it . Um , it's been . It's been working recently because my wife is long-term off sick work . I don't think it was working before then , you know . So it was one of those things where actually it was the worst possible circumstances that that helps us get the work-life balance thing a little bit better .

Navigating Work-Life Balance and Empathy

Speaker 2 43:41

But , yeah , what I would say to people that are struggling with that I think it is tricky and I think they're .

Speaker 2 43:48

I think what I wish people understood is how difficult it is . When you work , you feel guilty because you're not spending time with family and you're not fulfilling those duties . When you're spending time with family and fulfilling those duties , you feel guilty because you could be working in theory and you might have projects and deadlines and stuff and like , well , I could be doing that right now technically , but I can't . So I think it's a very individual thing technically , but I , you know , but I can't , so I think it's a very individual thing . Um , if you've got the type of personality that's very driven by guilt , uh , it can be a real struggle . And if you've got a very methodical brain , just like well , that's my time for that , that's my time for that , and then you feel no guilt at all , then I think you probably get along much better yeah , it's certainly something that I would , I would struggle with or do struggle with .

Speaker 1 44:35

I think you either I don't know what your experience is , but my experience is that you kind of I've had to learn the hard way . You know trial and error and you know you go through little phases of where you know , because there is a fine line between my motivation a lot of times is family , but I have to work to to or my focus or to to to um , even , I guess to a certain extent , set an example of hard work . You want to , you want to do that and I struggle to say no sometimes . But as I've got older and made mistakes and and learn from them , you kind of you know there'll never be a perfect balance , I don't think , because it's it's individual circumstances . There's not a one size fits all , but certainly I feel I've got a pretty pretty good balance . But it's something I have to constantly work on because it's quite easy to get sucked into things .

Speaker 1 45:43

Or with my role currently I you know it's not my passion but I enjoy it , and there's some nights where I will work till 7 , 8 , sometimes 9 or 10 o'clock and then there'll be some times where I'm just very disciplined and now it's family time or I've put enough in and it's not worth sacrificing any more of that protected time or important time for family . I think there has to be some give or take , because you can't have this perfect equilibrium where you can balance that time . Sadly , in my experience I know , yeah , yeah , is there any ? I presume it's changed over time or you've learned different skills at different points in your life , but is there any unique qualities or habits or traits that you have that you think's contributed to your success in various roles or capacities over time ? Roles or capacities over time .

Speaker 2 46:53

I think the common , the commonality , is that I'm very intuitive and , um , that's been very useful for it's very useful for my practice . Um , you know , as a performer , you're communicating with an audience , um , and be , yeah . So being able to sort of feel what they're feeling is a big part of that . It's been , it's very important when you're working with these children with severe needs . I'm trained in a type of therapy called intensive interaction , which is actually developed listening to , um , mothers communicating with their newborn babies , and they realized that they were kind of talking to each other , but non-verbally , um , and that the mother would often sort of just imitate , uh , what the baby was doing , and the baby would respond and stuff was like there's no words involved , but there was definite communication happening . So it's like there's no words involved , but there was definite communication happening . So it's like , oh , there must be a form of communication that was possible without words . And then this kind of technique was developed where you're using music to do that , and that can be the most incredible experience when you've got a non-verbal child who's you know , so they're not able to speak , but they can make a movement or they can play an instrument or something , and then you can respond to what they're doing and when they realize that you're communicating with them , it's a really , really special experience .

Speaker 2 48:23

So I love doing that kind of stuff , I think , also just day-to-day in life . I mean , it's so much about relationships , isn't it ? You know , you , when you're building business relationships or personal relationships , or or just you know friendships with people that you know when you're having a hard time , they're going to be able to help you out or whatever , then just being able to get alongside people . I think there's there's a challenge as well , because being being intuitive empathetic might be another word for it um , it's hard to switch off and I've talked about that guilt thing before as well like that's part of the , the dark side of that , in a way that you can just be feeling guilty your whole life , no matter what you're doing , feeling that you're not doing enough for um , that you're doing it wrong or whatever . Um , but that is , I think , what allows me to be creative in the way that I am , because I I think I can feel on a visceral level what other people are feeling when did you become aware of that or how ?

Speaker 1 49:29

how do you learn that that's your a talent or a skillset ?

Speaker 2 49:37

I think quite early .

Speaker 1 49:40

Yeah .

Speaker 2 49:44

I mean , school is a is a brutal place to be an empath , really brutal , um , because , yeah , you don't get to practice it in a very wholesome environment often , um , so I , I think I always knew , but it was only I remember when I did like I was a leader on my first residential camp and stuff , and um , you know so , looking after a bunch of kids for the first time and just thought it was the best thing ever .

Speaker 2 50:18

It's like like , well , I get my own little kingdom and I get to look after these children and , you know , communicate with them and be part of a team of other people that are doing the same thing , and you know , we're all working on this together and um , so I think , yeah , that first point where you have responsibility , where it switches from um , I'm just sitting in a classroom absorbing all this rubbish around me , uh , you know to , oh , I can actually now use this tool to understand other people and to maybe understand things that they're not able to communicate . That suddenly switches and becomes , oh , this is actually something which is really exciting and has so many possibilities , rather than something which is just difficult .

Speaker 1 51:11

Yeah , it's too long for this podcast , but I find I find that

Navigating Professional Relationships and Creative Industries

Speaker 1 51:22

kind of thing fascinating . Or how , yeah , but I guess the intangible qualities . There's certain qualities that are depending on the definition , I guess . But physical strength , it comes in various forms , I guess , to be fair , but it's quite clear if you have it or you can , it's quite tangible how you could gain it . You know it's quite a straightforward path , but the more perceptive or softer skills are interesting .

Speaker 1 51:52

Team dynamics and all these kind of things , and there's a maybe it's , you know , we're a bit more self-aware than we used to be , but traditionally it's very much the loudest person is the leader and the one that people listen to , but it's often the ones that are a bit more softly spoken or quieter that are the wiser ones . So I find those dynamics and how , in different environments or cultures or whatever it might be , teams , it can be apparent in different ways and how different teams develop . Or you could have the exact same people in totally different environments and how different teams develop . Or you could have the exact same people in totally different environments and it would , it would , it would , uh , develop slightly different but the exact same people with the exact same skills , uh , and and personalities . So so , yeah , um , yeah , you mentioned you like listening to podcasts . Is there , is there , uh , you're ? Do you have a top three uh podcasts that you'd recommend to our listeners to to go and check out ?

Speaker 2 53:01

um , well , there's this one called insert buzzword , which is really good . I certainly recommend that . Yeah , I have genuinely , though , enjoyed a lot of these episodes . It's really fascinating . Loved listening to Lucy Barr as one obviously because I know Lucy and I taught her triplets as well , so I loved hearing about her experience of being a mother of triplets . I taught them piano for four years or something maybe three or four years , so that was quite something .

Speaker 2 53:31

There's all sorts of podcasts I like to listen . I'd like to listen to quite a variety . I mean , sometimes I will listen to things , um , you know , like american politics , for example . Um , I will try and listen to things that will give me the two extremes , so that I can try and find it somewhere in the middle . The Diary of a CEO . I enjoy that one as well . I do like a bit of Jordan Peterson . I have to say I understand that can be controversial . I enjoyed Jordan Peterson when he was just a psychologist , because I love all the psychology stuff , and then it all became very political , but actually , in terms of his psychology stuff , it's actually really fascinating . It's very Jungian , so that's kind of my kind of brain , you know . It's very sort of ethereal stuff and how that relates to evolutionary biology and and so on , support them . We're kind of fascinated by all that , um . But yeah , wide range of stuff , and I love sort of trying out new podcasts good .

Speaker 1 54:42

okay , I like listening to smartless , which is will arnett , jason bateman and sean hayes . Um , I find that interesting just because it is speaking to people and finding out their stories . I listen to Darius Ewell quite a lot , and then Current Affairs I guess I'd call it , but a combination of UK and US politics . It is interesting to hear different perspectives , and I went to America relatively recently , in May , and just hearing it firsthand from certain people was quite eye-opening , because you kind of hear interviews on TV or on podcasts and you kind of think , okay , some people think that or it's a soundbite , but when you hear or see how strongly people feel about different issues or different things , it's quite , for what I consider a fairly mild-mannered British person , it was quite interesting to feel it , I should say , and to experience it firsthand . What are your future of future , future plans , future goals ? Is there anything on the horizon that's , uh , any film projects or uh , I guess you've mentioned a few things you're working on already , but is there any , any big plans coming up ?

Speaker 2 56:07

this feature film , hopefully shooting in september is , uh , certainly a big thing on the horizon . We're in the process of casting at the moment .

Speaker 1 56:16

AA Double C . What is it about ? It's all under wraps .

Speaker 2 56:20

No , no , yeah , it's called Guardians of Loch Ness . So it's about a CIA agent from America who comes over to kind of investigate a weird sort of attempt on her life and it leads her to Scotland and there may or may not be a monster involved . They may or may not be . That's the selling point , obviously Guardians of Loch Ness and hopefully shooting on location and show lots of fun . Cast is looking very exciting . Already we've had , um , like we've had some , you know , reasonably high profile people like applying to us . We thought we were going to have to contact them , but I think that is just the state of the industry at the moment . That people , yeah , at some I think I heard statistics of like 60% of the film industry is out of work . So it's that's for actors and crew and everything else . So it's quite desperate .

Speaker 1 57:21

What's prompted that I have known nothing about the industry ?

Speaker 2 57:27

Well , I mean lots of . I think going for a while is , you know , the big companies are the big studios . They're making massive budget things which could be several smaller films , and they're very risk-averse . The nature of that is it gets squeezing the middle an awful lot . So there's just less being made and there's less kind of and there's lots of people that want to do it . Obviously it is kind of a saturated market with the best film in the world , because who doesn't want to be a filmmaker ? So yeah , it's tricky . But also the the dynamics of online , you know , video on demand and stuff . That's changed things with just less , a lot less money sloshing around . You know , because , as I say , everybody wants to watch films but nobody wants to pay for them . Um , um . So it's changing , but you know you got to roll with the punches . You can't just sort of lie down and say , oh , it's all over . The industry is guffed like . You know . There's no , look , it's changing . You look for the new opportunities and respond to them okay , cool .

Speaker 2 58:44

And any final final thoughts or messages for the listeners before we ask our final question yeah , well , I would just reiterate what I , you know , said before about , if you are sorry , whether you're doing it as a career or whether you're a keen amateur musician or filmmaker or storyteller or whatever . I think that's important and it's important in ways that are intangible , but that doesn't make it any less important and it needs to be protected and you need to value that . And , yeah , I think , whatever level you're doing it at , whatever level you want to do it at , I would say that's really important .

Speaker 1 59:29

Okay , cool . So , as you will have listened to on other episodes of the podcast , at the end we like to ask our guests what their favorite or , I guess , most hated buzzword is , um in their industry or or just in general . So do you have a favorite or least uh , I don't know what the phrase is One you don't like buzzword in your life ?

Speaker 2 59:57

Yeah Well , it's not so much a buzzword as a phrase , but the phrase , which I'm sure everyone will have heard it's not who you know , it's not what you know , it's who you know really annoys me , because I understand why it's true , but , um , it sort of gives the impression , I think , that when you're working in that kind of industry , it's all about , you know , climbing up the greasy pole and ingratiating yourself to people who are above you in that greasy , in that greasy pole and , um , and maybe being a bit false , maybe sort of you know , pretending that you're something you're not and so that you can get in with those people that you should know , and that is , I think , just a really bad strategy . So I always just sort of you know , try to gently say no . When people say that to me , it's like , oh well , it's not what you know , it's who you know . It's like no , it's like , um , it is what you know . You know , if , if people are trying to create something with a value , then they want you to be , they want you to have the skills , um , they want you to be a good person to work with , they want you to . And , yes , you need to get those initial opportunities , but don't ingratiate yourself .

Speaker 2 1:01:12

People don't think it's some sort of weird and , yes , you need to get those initial opportunities , but don't ingratiate yourself . People don't think it's some sort of weird hierarchy that you need to climb into , because actually that that leads to a really bad place . That leads to , you know , a place where actually you end up often either a very nasty person that nobody likes , um , or just in despair because you've you think you've ticked all the right boxes and you've ingratiated yourself to all the right people and still nobody wants to work with you . So I would say just it's , it's . It is more what you know , you know be the best you can at your art . Uh , don't lose your passion . Um , try to be a little better every day .

Speaker 1 1:01:45

Um and um just be decent and and kind to people and see how it goes Fantastic Well . Thank you very much , matthew . It's been a pleasure hearing your story and journey and experiences and to our listeners . We'll be back with another episode next week , thank you very much . Thank you so much .